Fahrenheit 9/11

Anyone going out to see F-9/11?Looks awesome, pretty cool, ties into the topic I started a while back on The War in Iraq, I have high expectations for this movie, my friend keeps telling me about Moore's other movie, Bowling for Columbine, and his Tv Show, that was cancelled.

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The earth is flat.

Eh. I'll probably see it, but I'm not really into Michael Moore. He has a tendency to put interesting questions up as unassailable facts. In that format, they're really, really easy to shoot down. If he left them as interesting questions, or... I dunno, got himself a freakin' fact checker, he'd be a Hell of a lot more effective.Now Al Franken, that man's just a treat and a half.

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

I'm looking forward to seeing Moore's new movie. It's probably much more serious than his others, considering the subject matter. Personally, I like him better when he's getting important people to make fools of themselves on camera than when he's telling me things I already know.I highly recommend Bowling For Columbine, but my personal favorite movie is his debut, Roger & Me.regards,
Esteban Hambre

Documentaries are cool when they are about people like Jane Goodall, but I personally prefer print media as a source of information. It's nice to be able to refer back to it, and it is much easier to check out facts, especially if they are footnoted.

One problem is that Michael Moore is absolutely dishonest in the way he cuts and edits his films.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

hello there
u may be right jar!
but i guess he has never shown this dishonesty in his books.. i mean columns etc.
so gotta check it out
Peace
iftikhar

jar claims:

quote:

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One problem is that Michael Moore is absolutely dishonest in the way he cuts and edits his films.

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Absolutely dishonest, eh? Meaning he's not simply stretching the truth or only showing the scenes that demonstrate his take on things, but that his films in their final form mean the exact opposite of what the footage itself originally signified? That sounds plausible.Since you didn't deign to provide an example of what you mean, I'll help you out. I understand the objection as it relates to the sequence in Roger & Me when he goes through the recent history of General Motors. Moore makes it seem as if GM suddenly switched over to defense contracting and immediately started closing US plants to pay for the huge executive bonuses that Roger Smith was receiving. Okay, the true timeline was certainly a lot longer than Moore let on. However, his accusation still hinged on the fact that a company racking up record profits and paying its chief executive hefty bonuses was also closing plants and laying off employees as if it were in financial ruin.Similarly, at the end of Roger & Me we see a Flint family being evicted on Christmas Eve, while we hear the sentimental holiday address Roger Smith delivered to General Motors shareholders at their Christmas party. Okay, is Moore being 'absolutely dishonest' because he's trying to make it seem like the two events are taking place simultaneously? When Smith is finished his speech, we see Moore approach him for the dramatic showdown, so we realize that the two sequences must have been shot at different times. Are you saying that Moore expects us to believe he's in Flint and Detroit at the exact same time?regards,
Esteban Hambre

Actually, I was thinking of his more recent effort, Bowling for Columbine.It is worth reviewing the analysis at Hardylaw.net which was prepared by David Hardy. The Truth about Bowling for Columbine

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

In Roger and Me, Moore harped about the closing of the old Buick plant in Flint. The fact that GM was building a new, state of the art plant just south of Flint, was never mentioned. Nor were the competitive pressures that forced the old plant to close.As far as his latest effort, it has truly earned Moore his place in history. Right alongside Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally.

Paisano,I assume you've seen Fahrenheit 9-11, then. I know you'd never criticize a movie without giving it a fair viewing. How was it?added by edit: So Cuernavaca, Mexico is "just south of Flint"?regards,
Esteban HambreThis message has been edited by MrHambre, 06-25-2004 04:30 PM

quote:

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Actually, I was thinking of his more recent effort, Bowling for Columbine.
It is worth reviewing the analysis at Hardylaw.net which was prepared by David Hardy.

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Not that I'm a big Moore fan or anything, but he did attempt to answer some of his critics for his Columbine movie:Michael Moore | SubstackThis message has been edited by MisterOpus1, 06-25-2004 04:32 PM

I agree that Moore's techniques can be problematic at times - one definitely has to be media savvy to pick out the truth from the half-truth.However, sometimes moments of his footage do stand on its own - and they are usually pieces of footage you don't see elsewhere.I haven't seen '9/11 yet', but I have seen the trailer - it includes a moment on a golf course where 'W' is answering a reporter's deadly serious question, which he ends with a smile and says, "Now watch me make this drive."Everytime I see it, it definitely makes me say to myself, "who the hell is this guy that is running our country?"

I was talking about the plant that's visible from I-75, wiseguy.

Is there some kind of pernicious conservative neurosis where you guys can't tell the difference between irreverent opposition to the policies of a leader and outright hatred of a nation?I mean, when did Bush suddenly become the American avatar? Quite frankly, it's pretty obvious to me that Moore loves America a lot more than you or I - when he sees bad shit happening to America, he goes out and does something about it.What was the last thing you did to fight the war on terror, mi paisano? You know what I find anti-American? Suggesting that the only way to "love America" is to march lockstep with an ideology that's accomplishing nothing.I don't know if Moore is a good guy, but he's something pretty rare - a liberal older than 25 who's still got some fuckin' piss and vinegar. In a time when their liberalism seems to be something that folks discard along with blacklight posters and beer can pyramids when they move out of college, that's good to see.

Actually, I do not agree with just about anything that GWB has done.But that has nothing to do with Michael Moore. My problem with him is the same that I have with many literal fundamentalists. He begins with a conculsion and then distorts the evidence as needed to support his assertions.It is not the end, it is the means.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion