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Author Topic:   Humans of the future?
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 82 (119150)
06-27-2004 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-26-2004 11:49 PM


Sure. Evolution is a process. It will continue, is continuing as we discuss it. Other critters are also evolving and will continue to evolve.
But from what you say...
Or have humans reached as far as evolution can take us?
it sounds like you may be misunderstanding some of the concepts of evolution.
Evolution is not a move from less complex to more complex, from lower to higher, from worse to better. It is simply random. If the change, whatever it is, helps the critter suurvive and reproduce, then it was successful.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tubi417, posted 06-26-2004 11:49 PM tubi417 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by tubi417, posted 06-27-2004 2:12 AM jar has replied
 Message 11 by arachnophilia, posted 06-28-2004 3:01 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 82 (119156)
06-27-2004 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by tubi417
06-27-2004 2:12 AM


Some things. But that is not a goal or direction of evolution. Evolution can work equaly by making things simpler.
Consider how some primates, on the way to becoming humans and chimps, lost their long tails. Consider how some birds lost the ability to fly. Some time evolution is making things simpler.
Edited to add section below.
When you start with a single cell organism, complexity is the only way to go. You can't go from one cell to less than one cell. But after a certain point, you have the ability to go either towards additional complexity, or towards reduced complexity. Both are possible.
The way natural selection works though, is that most changes are just random doodles. This often leads to poor solutions for a given problem, a Rube Goldberg solution. And when we look at life, that's pretty much what we see. We are not well designed. Instead, we are jury rigged, patched and full of bondo, held together with spit and lots of duct tape.
This message has been edited by jar, 06-27-2004 01:26 AM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by tubi417, posted 06-27-2004 2:12 AM tubi417 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by tubi417, posted 06-27-2004 3:09 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 82 (119569)
06-28-2004 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by arachnophilia
06-28-2004 3:01 PM


Arachnophilia writes:
if we were to have an ice age, we'd cope quite well. not by evolving into a more neanderthal shape, but by making coats, heaters, etc.
Actually, I really need to question that.
One of the big questions that IMHO is simply being ignored right now is that civilized man has never had to live through any of the big changes Nature can throw at us. So saying we could cope by making coats and heaters is as simplistic as the arguments we get from the Creationists.
If we look at the records coming from Ice Core data, it appears that the last 10,000 years has been a major anomaly. Instead of the major fluctuations between hot and cold, wet and dry, that we see in the record before this latest period, we have been living in a period of relative stability.
If we had another ice age (and the records seem to show they can have very rapid onset), how will we feed the worlds population? If farmers can not reasonably predidct growing seasons or areas, how will they farm? If we remove the agricultural base from the worlds economic system, will the rest of the economic system stand? Can cities continue to exist without a steady and reliable economic and agricultural base?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by arachnophilia, posted 06-28-2004 3:01 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by arachnophilia, posted 06-28-2004 3:35 PM jar has replied
 Message 17 by contracycle, posted 06-29-2004 4:53 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 82 (119584)
06-28-2004 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by arachnophilia
06-28-2004 3:35 PM


I think it likely that although anatomically modern humans existed for millions of years or at a least, hundreds of thousands of years, cities and civilization did not grow until the current period of relative calm.
In a world bounded by chaotic seasons, growing areas varying from location to location and najor climatic changes, there is a real question if modern man (the evolved kind) could survive.
Other creatures have risen to positions of dominance yet failed when conditions changed. Even a quick glance at the record shows the prospects for humans does not look good.
If there is a major shift back to more normal weather patterns, it would not be unreasonable to see a die off among humans of mammouth (pun intended) proportions. That could very well be the incident that leads to the next evolution of humans, and the outcome might be totally beyond current imaginations. It could also be an event that opens an ecological nitch which is then filled by some other critter.
Humans are not unique.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by arachnophilia, posted 06-28-2004 3:35 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 22 of 82 (120334)
06-30-2004 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by custard
06-30-2004 3:38 AM


If it did it would have to apply across the board and to earlier examples as well. Piss poor design is not limited only to humans or modern critters.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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 Message 21 by custard, posted 06-30-2004 3:38 AM custard has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 32 of 82 (124112)
07-12-2004 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by mike the wiz
07-12-2004 8:35 PM


As for human illness, it is quite easily explained in Genesis that the ground would be "cursed".
Now how do you get from that to illness?
Also, Adam lived for nearly a thousand years, therefore that would also fit the degenerative picture.
Are you sure that you really want to bring in the short lived Judaic Patriarchs like Adam and Methuselah? After all, they were so degenerated compared to those in the Gilgamish tales. The Sumerian models lasted many orders of magnitude longer than the Old Testament models.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 8:35 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 8:59 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 82 (124116)
07-12-2004 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by mike the wiz
07-12-2004 8:59 PM


Are you saying that God gives us illness Jar?
Of course not. There is nothing about sickness or injury that has anything to do with religion. We get sick because there are other critters that live off us, because we are a cobbled together product of Evolution.
Are you saying that he made us to get ill?
'Course not. He didn't make us. We evolved.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 8:59 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 10:15 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 82 (124125)
07-12-2004 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by mike the wiz
07-12-2004 10:15 PM


Because we are made in the image of God.
Frankly, I've always seen that has about the biggest nonsense, well, close to the biggest nonsense in the Bible. I can't imagine that God has no padding on his shins or funny bone, or bad eyes, or a coccyx. I bet he'd have a real tail.
As to Jesus' form, do we know that he did not come as a dolphin to the dolphins?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 10:15 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 10:28 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 82 (124133)
07-12-2004 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by mike the wiz
07-12-2004 10:28 PM


I really think that you have misunderstood me. In fact I know that you have.
Do you really limit God so easily?
I do not limit God at all.
I don't dismiss the idea of "Made in His Image" based on ego. I base it on the visible evidence. We are so poorly made that it's silly to think we are made in the image of GOD.
Do Angels suffer from bodily problems?
We'll, other than the fact that has absolutely nothing to do with anything, it's about as intersting a pinhead dancing.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 10:28 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
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