Examples of non-Christian Moral systems.

Well, as you've stated them no. You will have to present some evidence of both to make it clearer. Ever read Proverbs? The Bible has all encompassing forms of writing. Dadgum right there's a reason! It was prophecied in Genesis 26, 27, and 28. ...The Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated (Jews and Arabs); one people will be stronger than the older (Esau father of Arabs) will serve the younger (Jacob father of Jews)."To Jacob "...May God give you of heaven's dew and of earth's richness-- an abundance of grain and new wine. May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed."To Esau "Your dwelling will be away from the earth's richness, away from the dew of heaven above (in the desert). You will live by the sword (they certainly did that) and you will serve your brother. But when you grow restless, you will throw his yoke off your neck."Hmm... The arabs are getting restless!The reason so much horror commited in the NAME (note: not actually following the Christian moral code) of Christianity: it makes sense that Satan would attack the one true religion hardest and try to twist it and pervert it the most, does it not?Just curious what atrocities are the Jews responsible for?

You are, of couse, inserting your own interpretations into that.But let's assume for a moment that you are correct. That would certainly not apply to Christians.What is your take on the purely Christian genocide and wars? Can you help me understand the conflicts during the Reformation, Counter-Reformation, Inquisition, the intermnable wars between Cathlolic and Protestant, the societies such as the Puritans (Pilgrims).Can you help me understand the hatred, abuse and personal attacks from Christian members here on the board against other members, Christian and Non-Christian? Can you help me understand why it is Christians on this board that say other Christians are damned, use filthy language to describe other Christians? Can you help me understand why the Non-Christians, the Atheists seem to exhibit far higher moral standards, a far higher level of tolerance ofr the beliefs of others than many of this boards most outspoken Christians?Some of the behavior such as seen in the thread, Message 1, Message 67 or in the threads on Homosexuality can only be described as bizarre.Help me understand how such behaviour can be considered Christian?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That was my point. USSR, an athiest state, perpetrated some of the most heinous acts of murder and genocide in the 20th century.I was using that as an example to your challenge to come up with any non-Judaic states that began, were responsible for war and/or aggression over the last 2000 years.You responded that Russia was a Judaic state, so I was confused.

They killed Jesus, make matzoh with the blood of Christian children, and run the international jewish conspiracy which, with the masons, templars, the illuminati, and the Carlysle Group, are responsible for roughly 97% of the word's tragedies - including AIDS (wait that was Ronald Reagan).Seriously though, ask the Palestinians or the British who tried to govern Palestine until the Jewish and Arab terrorists made them bail altogether.If you believe in the bible, the Jews killed all sorts of peoples. Look what they did to the poor Midianites.

There were quite a few non-judaic states that committed real attrocities in the last 2000 years, many still going on. But the number really pales when compared to the slaughter by the Judiac States.It's sad, and a puzzlement to me. I wish that I could understand it.The Russian statement refered to Russia under the Czars. Certainly it was not a good egg by any stretch of the imagination either. In fact the horrors under the Bolsheviks is really not much worse than under the Czars. The Soviet Union though under Stalin was something else entirely. Sadly, much of what he did was copied directly from the US and Manifest Destiny. Manifest Destiny: A Conversation With R. David Edmunds.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Leviticus 18:9
" 'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.Where in the bible does it give instructions how to sell your daughter into slavery?edited to ask that question.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 07-01-2004 06:49 AM

That is so redundant its not even funny.Leviticus 18:9
" 'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere. Plase explain what needs to be tweaked.

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Your and Alameda's comments concerning relativity apply to christianity, or any other religion as well, namely what you consider moral is largely based on what god you believe in

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That is true except I am saying that our conscience plus objectivity will always bring us back to the same principles, God's principles. And if you look at history, people always seem to come back to the same principles.

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Yes and no. Yes I think that many of the principles in many of the religions are similar in effect if not in design. Where I think that you are wrong is in insisting that they are derived from God or god or gods. They often are derived from religion, which is not the same thing. And if the end effects of many of these principles is the same accross different religions that seems to me to cast a great deal of doubt on the primacy of the christian version of god w.r.t. the origination of these principles. It could just as well have been the Buddha, the Tao, the Great Spirit or Bob,.... or parts of them could be partially hardwired into our brains by evolution as a social animal.

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"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur
and my family motto
Transfixus sed non mortis
Taz

Wow! Nothing like religion sanctioned racism is there? Because the arabic nations didn't spend a thousand or so years being more peaceful, more civilised and more intellectual than the christian world or anything, not they who preserved and advanced greek philosophy and mathematics at all. It was the arabs who massacared and raped their way across the world in the blind staggering that were the crusades, and it was the Christians who treated their opponents with dignity and honour.Yeah, right.

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Just curious what atrocities are the Jews responsible for?

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Palestine.

Not necessarily instructions, but they were allowed to sell their children as slaves.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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That was my point. USSR, an athiest state, perpetrated some of the most heinous acts of murder and genocide in the 20th century.

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That seems like much the same kind of alarmist generalisation you're criticising, though. In the same period, the West was presiding over many atrocities as well (topically, those of Saddam Hussein for example), but these are seldom acknowledged, and sometimes falsely attributed (Pol Pot being a prime example).

1- What the hell are you talking about?2-Have you even read this thread?3-Are you saying Pol Pott had no responsibility for the deaths of nearly 3 million people?This message has been edited by custard, 07-01-2004 07:33 AM

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1- What the hell are you talking about?

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Moral relatavism

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2-Have you even read this thread?

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Yes, just did

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3-Are you saying Pol Pott had no responsibility for the deaths of nearly 3 million people?

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No, I'm saying that the CIA needs to take responsibility for the actions of their plant.

A comment on Shinto. I'm not an expert, but do have some tangential familiarity with it. I think Shinto can be said to be amoral, on the basis that it is much more a sort of praxis for dealing with the world - including a presumed spiritual world - more than a set of guidelines are instructions for moral behaviour. Those concenrs are almost at right angles to Shinto.I kinda disagree though that Shinto is in any meaningful sense a constributing factor to any atrocities perpetrated by Japan, however: I feel that blame is better laid at the feet of martial zen buddhism, ironically.