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Author Topic:   universe- why is it here?
Garf
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 144 (117997)
06-23-2004 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


I don't understand why the universe could be here just because it's here. Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe? It just doesn't seem right that all of space would be here just because it is.
Can't you seemingly just back that question up forever though?
Re-phrasing it:
"I don't understand why the higher intelligence could be here just because it's here. Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of even higher intelligence to create the higher intelligence? It just doesn't seem right that the higher intelligence would be here just because it is."
See what I mean? I don't think there's an answer to this question, at least not one that would satisfy anyone.

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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 17 of 144 (122283)
07-05-2004 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


I'm not arguing for or against evolution but I don't understand why the universe could be here just because it's here.
I know this topic's old, but I couldn't help but notice it.
There's something called the 'anthropedic principle' that answers that question like so, when put in layman's:
We're here because if the conditions were any different the part of the universe we live in would either not support intelligent life that could ask such questions, or it would be able to and we'd still ask why it was like it was.
Yes, I know, that's more of a 'why WE're here' answer, and not why the universe is here; the two questions are close relatives.
If you're looking for purpose in this universe, the best place to look is closest to home until we can exchange information with other intelligent life.(assuming they exist, and if they do, assuming we ever meet.)
Personally, there are two ways that I like to look at it, you don't have to take either of them seriously.
1.(God not taken into account) The intelligent life within it will decide the purpose(of the universe). Pretty self-explaintory, and it opens up plenty of possiblilities.
2.(God taken into account) In short, God has a plan. Something really awesome. His plan could infact just be the possibility above, but it's something huge, something massive, something that beats any sci-fi space novel you could ever read!... not that a good episode of the Chapelle's Show won't do that, but you know what I mean! Personally, I believe God wants us to explore the universe and understand the laws that govern it, but I'm sure the Revalations although symbolism do forshadow an incredible battle between good and evil, and this planet's just not big enough to host something so paramount.
The first day I joined this forum(I'll never forget this), somebody quoted some airhead scientist that said, in summary:
"The universe is just too big to be just a stage for a battle between Good and Evil"
Man was that guy full of it! No amount of space could be big enough for there to not be evil, and some good to challenge it. And since disorder increases with time naturally that means intelligent life will inevitably become corrupt with time. So after all this time, you'd think we would have killed eachother off. But for some reason this 'disorder' keeps getting supressed somehow. Now if that's not something to ponder about I don't know what is; so in short I believe this universe is a stage for something huge, and who wouldn't want to be a part of something that big? And besides, too bad! They live in it .

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 19 by coffee_addict, posted 07-06-2004 12:37 AM One_Charred_Wing has replied
 Message 28 by sidelined, posted 07-07-2004 12:45 AM One_Charred_Wing has replied

  
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 4374 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 18 of 144 (122306)
07-06-2004 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by One_Charred_Wing
07-05-2004 11:51 PM


Eeek
I think you're being serious.

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 19 of 144 (122310)
07-06-2004 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by One_Charred_Wing
07-05-2004 11:51 PM


B2P writes:
2.(God taken into account) In short, God has a plan. Something really awesome. His plan could infact just be the possibility above, but it's something huge, something massive, something that beats any sci-fi space novel you could ever read!... not that a good episode of the Chapelle's Show won't do that, but you know what I mean! Personally, I believe God wants us to explore the universe and understand the laws that govern it, but I'm sure the Revalations although symbolism do forshadow an incredible battle between good and evil, and this planet's just not big enough to host something so paramount.
This sounds more like A Wrinkle In Time by... freaking damn it! I can't remember any author's name these days. Must be the stinking darkness lying over my head.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-05-2004 11:51 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 25 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-06-2004 4:11 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 20 of 144 (122312)
07-06-2004 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by coffee_addict
07-06-2004 12:37 AM


Madeleine L'Engle
some of my favorite books

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by coffee_addict, posted 07-06-2004 12:37 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 21 of 144 (122316)
07-06-2004 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Asgara
07-06-2004 12:42 AM


And why the hell don't we have underline UBB?

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Asgara, posted 07-06-2004 12:46 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 22 of 144 (122318)
07-06-2004 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by coffee_addict
07-06-2004 12:45 AM


do it with html

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by coffee_addict, posted 07-06-2004 12:45 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
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fnord
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 144 (122328)
07-06-2004 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe? It just doesn't seem right that all of space would be here just because it is.
Just a thought, but assumed there is some type of higher intelligence that created the universe, that still doesn't answer your initial question, or explain why there is so much space "wasted". Come to think of it, it would seem more likely to me that all that unused space indicates that there is not a higher intelligence at work.

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. 1 Cor.14:33

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 24 of 144 (122330)
07-06-2004 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Asgara
07-06-2004 12:46 AM


Ok, I see.

The Laminator

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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 25 of 144 (122428)
07-06-2004 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by coffee_addict
07-06-2004 12:37 AM


A Wrinkle In Time
S-U-C-K-E-D.
I was thinking something much bigger, by the way. A Wrinkle In Time showed the universe at the mercy of a big machine that could be beaten by talking to it. Pfft! Weak chi...

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by coffee_addict, posted 07-06-2004 12:37 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by coffee_addict, posted 07-06-2004 4:41 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 26 of 144 (122440)
07-06-2004 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by One_Charred_Wing
07-06-2004 4:11 PM


B2P writes:
S-U-C-K-E-D.
I was thinking something much bigger, by the way. A Wrinkle In Time showed the universe at the mercy of a big machine that could be beaten by talking to it. Pfft! Weak chi...
No wonder you don't like the book. The "big machine" is just a small part of a whole that is known as evil. Oh wait, did you just skim through the cliff notes?

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-06-2004 4:11 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 27 of 144 (122486)
07-06-2004 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by coffee_addict
07-06-2004 4:41 PM


No wonder you don't like the book. The "big machine" is just a small part of a whole that is known as evil. Oh wait, did you just skim through the cliff notes?
Haven't read it since 4th Grade so a lot of details have slipped. Still, it's not my kind of book; mainly because there was way too much dawdling around before they actually got to the thing.

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 28 of 144 (122545)
07-07-2004 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by One_Charred_Wing
07-05-2004 11:51 PM


B2P
The first day I joined this forum(I'll never forget this), somebody quoted some airhead scientist that said, in summary:
"The universe is just too big to be just a stage for a battle between Good and Evil"
Let us get the quote right.
"It doesn't seem to me that this fantastically marvelous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil, which is the view that religion has.
The stage is too big for the drama."
Yeah, I guess you are right. Richard Feynman,who, at the age of 23 was brought into work on the Los Alamos project constructing the first nuclear weapon.Working as an invaluable part of the greatest collection of intellect ever assembled while his wife lay dying in an Albequerque New Mexico hospital and keeping her spirits up by toying with the military censors through their letters to each other.
From there to teaching at Caltech and eventually to a Nobel Prize in physics in 1964. He also worked on the Commission investigating the space shuttle Challenger disaster.
Yeah the man was an absolute airhead. Just ask any of the one or two people who have read his obscure works such as "The Feynman lectures on Physics" or "The Character of Physical Law" "Feynman Lectures on Computation", "Feynman Lectures on Gravitation." Or Perhaps his unpopular works such as "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!: Adventures of a Curious Character" or "What Do You Care What Other People Think?: Further Adventures of a Curious Character."
There is also a stage play called QED with Alan Alda playing the part of Feynman.Of course it is probably as lacklustre and boring as the man himself.
Of course you would have to walk a mile in the mans shoes to be able to make such a judgement suach as "Man was that guy full of it!" You will do that in your lifetime right? The neat thing is He would be probably the first to agree with you .As a last retort to your post I thought I would give just a tiny sample of the airhead himself.
A poet once said, "The whole universe is in a glass of wine." We will probably never know in what sense he meant that, for poets do not write to be understood. But it is true that if we look at a glass of wine closely enough we see the entire universe. There are the things of physics: the twisting liquid which evaporates depending on the wind and weather, the reflection in the glass, and our imagination adds the atoms. The glass is a distillation of the earth's rocks, and in its composition we see the secrets of the universe's age, and the evolution of stars. What strange array of chemicals are in the wine? How did they come to be? There are the ferments, the enzymes, the substrates, and the products. There in wine is found the great generalization: all life is fermentation. Nobody can discover the chemistry of wine without discovering, as did Louis Pasteur, the cause of much disease. How vivid is the claret, pressing its existance into the consciousness that watches it! If our small minds, for some convenience, divide this glass of wine, this universe, into parts - physics, biology, geology, astronomy, psychology, and so on - remember that nature does not know it! So let us put it all back together, not forgetting ultimately what it is for. Let it give us one more final pleasure: drink it and forget it all!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-05-2004 11:51 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 36 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-07-2004 8:27 PM sidelined has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 144 (122547)
07-07-2004 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by sidelined
07-07-2004 12:45 AM


One of my favorite Feynman stories
was about speaking Chinese. ;0
But I agree, he would be honored to be considered an airhead.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 30 of 144 (122564)
07-07-2004 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
07-07-2004 12:49 AM


Re: One of my favorite Feynman stories
jar
As I recall he really bugged his sister when one-upping her with the Chinese.I guess he made up it in later years by allowing her the aurora borealis by promising never to apply his powerful mind to working on it,kept that promise too, apparently. She went on to become a senior scientist at Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

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