cambrian death cause

Could something, say a low radiation dose, or such cause the quickened death of some creatures, yet be of little enough effect on 'higher life'? If men were here, as well as mammals, dinos, etc. all at the same time, would this possibly have the effect that the cambrian type creatures would die off? (even if for the sake of arguement, it took a while)
Where would such a deadly effect come from? I have some ideas. I'm trying to hold off harping on them, to possibly avoid getting this thread put in the faith/belief area.

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there is almost no concievable way that something would kill off all of certain kinds of life and none of other kinds

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"almost" I like that! Seems to me at first boo, that if A rhinoceros and a baby kangaroo were subject to things, say, great heat, lack of food for several days, intense radiation, etc, that the adult rhino would likely come out better in most scenarios! A mother who drinks alchohol while pregnant a lot, may hurt the coming child, say more than she would hurt herself. Now these poor little soft bodied organisms, and trilobites, and such, why, who knows how that some global force could have either killed many of them (yes, without killing Adam, or Noah, etc, or even the dinos, etc)--or, began a process, whereby they would not live all that long as they might have if the force had not come!

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we'd certainly have found an example of one of the "higher" more modern forms of life in cambrian strata, for instance.

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Not necassarily, if the split caused a measure of something on ewrth that affected the cambrian types more than humans, or larger lifeforms, or at least more impervious lifeforms to the particular force in question.

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In fact, there is a strain of bacteria that can live on X-Ray equipment in hospitals

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No doubt, but how many trilobites are sticking there, or even slugs? Notice how these nice girls (or men, as the case may be) tell us there is nothing to worry about, then bolt for the other room, before you can say, 'is your head glowing yet?'ha

Mark, there seems to be something to stratigraphic ordering that begs a better answer than that currently being served up. I don't know if the ordering is quite as 100% absolute as some evos seem to feel, but there does seem to be the pattern globally that could use a fresh look.

Why, why why, indeed. To get a good answer there, it seems we need some information on the conditions that were present in a world before the flood. Why, I sometimes wondered, did God need Eden as a place to live for Adam and Eve? What was the rest of the world like? We know one thing, at least, there were no people in all the world, except in that there garden! Were there any mammals? Were there many mammals? Was most of the world a sort of swamp full of cambrian type thingies? We really don't know! Apparently many feel there was no rain, but a watering or kind of daily dew, or mist. What if most or all of the men, mammals, birds, and dinos were in or near Eden at this early period? That alone would explain a lot! Why didn't men die in this period? Well, if Adam and Eve didn't eat the fruit, I guess they would never have died. The serpent said something like 'you will not surely die'! In other words, right away! But they started to at that moment! Still, in men's case, they lived on to close to a thousand years even after that, in such a near perfect world. I wouldn't be at all surprised that the reason so many creatures got so big, was they also lived greater lifespans than today. So they had time to grow big! (8 foot beavers, 1 foot dragonflys, huge dinos, etc)

Why, why why, indeed. To get a good answer there, it seems we need some information on the conditions that were present in a world before the flood. Why, I sometimes wondered, did God need Eden as a place to live for Adam and Eve? What was the rest of the world like? We know one thing, at least, there were no people in all the world, except in that there garden! Were there any mammals? Were there many mammals? Was most of the world a sort of swamp full of cambrian type thingies? We really don't know! Apparently many feel there was no rain, but a watering or kind of daily dew, or mist. What if most or all of the men, mammals, birds, and dinos were in or near Eden at this early period? That alone would explain a lot! Why didn't men die in this period? Well, if Adam and Eve didn't eat the fruit, I guess they would never have died. The serpent said something like 'you will not surely die'! In other words, right away! But they started to at that moment! Still, in men's case, they lived on to close to a thousand years even after that, in such a near perfect world. I wouldn't be at all surprised that the reason so many creatures got so big, was they also lived greater lifespans than today. So they had time to grow big! (8 foot beavers, 1 foot dragonflys, huge dinos, etc)

You seem to be unable to perceive them at least. Amazing really, to me.

Look again, I'd say they were pretty well covered.

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this may be true. it may not be true. but we're not dealing with two animals, we're dealing with ALL of them. explain to me how the weakened, retarded, runty rhinocerous of the pack didn't die?

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If as I speculated at the time all, or most animals, people etc. were in or near Eden, I don't think there were too many retards. Lets try to explain in in a different light, see if this helps. Lets say, then that the split happens, and now things here in the physical world began to die. With the pre flood conditions, climate, diet, etc, and being so close to the time we were made with perfect bodies, we had a 900 year plus lifespan. Animals too, I think had longer spans, despite death now being inevitable. Now we look across the spectrum of life, in all it's original fullness, and completion, little or nothing yet being even extinct! All creatures then now have a lifespan. Some more than others, of course, as now, even, a blackfly lives less long than a caterpillar! (I think) So all these low life forms, compared to man who is the highest, and was told to rule over all. Not only in relation to man, but in relation to lifespans, perhaps! So, even if we overlook the possible earth effects of the split, cosmically speaking, we simply look at it as little thingies dying and getting fossilized over time (how much time? maybe years?). Wouldn't this tend to give us a pattern of fossils! Yes, without men, and other Eden creatures, even Eden plants! What was outside of Eden? Well, we can't say for sure. It would seem from all the shallow water type creatures we find, there was a lot of wetlands? At least moistlands? ha. Now, if only we knew exactly where the real Eden was, and dug way down, maybe we'd find some better range of fossils!!!

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it certainly sounds like there was someone else outside the garden..

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Of course, afterwards, ahen they got kicked out of the garden, they spread out! But how far was Nod? When evos admit how little of the earth we dug up looking for fossils, I think a fraction of a percent, or something, is it any wonder they missed the motherlode? Remember also, that in a pre flood world where trillions of creatures died, and were fossilized (in this scenario)by the time 1000 years went by (in one man's life alone), the cambrian layer, depending on the conditions in the pre flood world may have been a deep buried layer! Now can you just imagine people getting things so backward, as to think the poor critters must have evolved from each other into men!!!?

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There is no evidence supporting a world wide flood. Therefore, there is no such thing as "conditions before the flood"

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Hard to discuss creation with a premise like that! Maybe you should switch this to 'evo unproven theories only discussion forum?'

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There is no scientific evidence for the Garden of Eden even existing.

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So, lets see, you can't detect the spirit world in the slightest, and now you admit science has no clue even of Eden! Don't worry, there are many good things we are able to learn with our scientific efforts, so don't feel too bad at the severe limitations.

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And they "feel" this way because of their religious convictions, not evidence found in nature

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Yes, it rains now, so I guess it always must have? Sorry, that just don't do it.

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This explanation is about as usefull as yours and supported by the same amount of evidence, that is no evidence whatsoever

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The creation record tells us He put men, and the garden here. Population stats, bear this out, taking into consideration death rates, war, etc. , I believe, since the flood, at least. Conversely if men were here as long as evos say, creation sites tell us we would be up to our ears in human fossils, and I also think, standing room only on planet earth-type of population.

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Because there were no men, or women, until about 100,000 years ago

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That men lived 1000 years is so hard to believe, but it seems easy to swallow 100,000, and millions, and billions of years for evos!

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It takes more than just a long life span to grow bigger. There are also morphological changes that have to occur to cope with many aspects of being "big".

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OK, so I can get along with some morphing as well as longer lifespans, as well as lots to eat. Something sure sounds like it was different in the pre flood world!

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And that is what I have to take it on, your belief.

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Interpretation of the evidence, I think we mean here. Your interpretation based on science, or mine.

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recorded flocks so large they took most of the day to pass overhead. Guess how many passenger pigeon fossils there are today? None ......Why should we expect to find billions of human fossils?

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So then, if we got 6 billion people now, in 3000 years or whatever since the flood, then in 100,000 years, even, would we not have many more? If we get 6 billion per 3000 years in 100 thousand we would have about 33 and a third billion. Just a very quick number, of course, but it gives us an idea of how many people we don't have for so great a time. Then, if your arguement is humans don't get fossized easy, why are some wanting them to be in the cambrian layer?

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Using the same calculations we should be miles deep in E. coli since they double in population every 20 minutes.

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Do you have good scientific reason to assume the birth rate was radically different? Hopefully you are not just giving us 'misinformation', and wild opinion here!

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Throughout the geologic record we see signs of riverbeds that cut into rock. If it doesn't rain, where does that water come from?

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Ok valid point. Now, is this evidence of water cutting certainly from a river in all cases? Do we know it could not have been some flood water somehow? Then, we need to look at the pre flood world, was there rivers? YES, there was! God even names several that were near Eden! So where did they get water? Did they get any from the fountains of the deep? Was the mist sufficient to feed rivers? Why not?!

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Yes, it has always rained as long as their was water flowing on Earth. Do you have evidence otherwise? Again, evidence first then conclusion.

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So now who is spouting conclusions here? Seems you are!

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Please, science only throws out one more god and one more religious creation story than "creation science" does.

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Not at all. The bible is choc full of supernatural and miracles, etc. It explains most of what we see in various religions, does not always throw it out! It doesn't chase beliefs out of the room, it just turns on the light so we can see where things really are. But one religion it does throw out on it's rear, is evolution. Not science, the religion, that is so called science.

I say it is a result of God's creation several thousand years ago. In this thread I explore the possibility that the cambrian creatures died pre flood. That there was a lot of water involved is not I don't think a major issue. Tell me how much you need, and I'll see if I can come up with some for you!

Yes, in this thread, that is exactly what I am trying to throw out for critisism. As far as "saying" it was pre flood, that is a bit premature. Sure looks good so far, though!

Well, by "it" I guess you mean the cambrian layer. Since we don't exactly know the conditions then, I don't think we would try to pin things down too much. It likely would have been close to the time of Eden. This is why having the garden full of God's creation, including man would not show up in most of the world's fossils. It must have taken some time for man, after parting the garden, to really spread out in any numbers. By extension, animals etc. as well. How fast did the cambrian layer pile up, or form in the wonderful climate, and conditions in this world? Possibly a lot faster than it would today. Also, how long would it take most of these low life types to die? Could some of the creatures have lived on for many years? Why not? Just because they were shortened in life span, does not mean (unless you know something I don't yet-in which case we'll figure in real factors as required)that they all died in a day!!
Imagine the memorial in the rocks, and the sadness God may have felt, because man had let death into the world, resulting in an explosion of death to so many of His nice creatures!

Why, must it have been, then, for sure, after Eden?