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Author Topic:   cambrian death cause
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 232 (123472)
07-09-2004 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by simple
07-09-2004 7:50 PM


Re: the point, exactly, watson.
If it is pre-flood, is it after everyone is egressed from the garden?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by simple, posted 07-09-2004 7:50 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by simple, posted 07-09-2004 9:40 PM jar has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 232 (123479)
07-09-2004 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
07-09-2004 7:54 PM


The real cambrian explosion!
Well, by "it" I guess you mean the cambrian layer. Since we don't exactly know the conditions then, I don't think we would try to pin things down too much. It likely would have been close to the time of Eden. This is why having the garden full of God's creation, including man would not show up in most of the world's fossils. It must have taken some time for man, after parting the garden, to really spread out in any numbers. By extension, animals etc. as well. How fast did the cambrian layer pile up, or form in the wonderful climate, and conditions in this world? Possibly a lot faster than it would today. Also, how long would it take most of these low life types to die? Could some of the creatures have lived on for many years? Why not? Just because they were shortened in life span, does not mean (unless you know something I don't yet-in which case we'll figure in real factors as required)that they all died in a day!!
Imagine the memorial in the rocks, and the sadness God may have felt, because man had let death into the world, resulting in an explosion of death to so many of His nice creatures!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 07-09-2004 7:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 07-09-2004 10:04 PM simple has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 232 (123486)
07-09-2004 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by simple
07-09-2004 9:40 PM


Re: The real cambrian explosion!
Well, it's obvious it was after Eden. You'll certainly agree with that won't you?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by simple, posted 07-09-2004 9:40 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 12:48 AM jar has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 34 of 232 (123500)
07-09-2004 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by simple
07-09-2004 3:41 PM


Re: through the looking glass
arkathon: this was a totally unsatisfying reply. you didn't address any of my important but keep rambling on about what you have
speculated
you completely ignored my biblical evidence that people were not immortal inside the garden if eden.
Of course, afterwards, ahen they got kicked out of the garden, they spread out! But how far was Nod?
yeah, that's nice and all, but where did cain's wife come from? not adam and eve.
the cambrian layer, depending on the conditions in the pre flood world may have been a deep buried layer!
deep is right.
the grand canyon is about 4500 ft deep, and goes down to the precambrian strata. at it's top, it's permian (just before the triassic). at it's lowest point in the grand canyon, the colorado river is 910 feet above sea level. stacking zion national park, wihc contains triassic and early jurassic rock, and bryce canyon, which contains jurassic through tertiary (almost modern) rock, that's about 9000 feet of sedimentary deposits.
if the earth is 6000 years old, that's a foot and a half a year.
i've lived in this house for 18 years. why am i not under 27 feet of sediment?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by simple, posted 07-09-2004 3:41 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 2:00 AM arachnophilia has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 232 (123522)
07-10-2004 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
07-09-2004 10:04 PM


Re: The real cambrian explosion!
Why, must it have been, then, for sure, after Eden?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 07-09-2004 10:04 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 07-10-2004 1:14 AM simple has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 232 (123525)
07-10-2004 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by simple
07-10-2004 12:48 AM


Re: The real cambrian explosion!
Because there was life all over the world.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 12:48 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 1:59 AM jar has replied

edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 37 of 232 (123528)
07-10-2004 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by simple
07-09-2004 12:32 AM


Evidence Deficit Disorder...
quote:
Mark, there seems to be something to stratigraphic ordering that begs a better answer than that currently being served up.
Such as?
quote:
I don't know if the ordering is quite as 100% absolute as some evos seem to feel, but there does seem to be the pattern globally that could use a fresh look.
It's all very nice to be able to make broad statements regarding the shortcomings of modern paleontology, but you're going to have to come up with something concrete to be taken seriously here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by simple, posted 07-09-2004 12:32 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 2:06 AM edge has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 232 (123530)
07-10-2004 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by jar
07-10-2004 1:14 AM


Re: The real cambrian explosion!
Life, yes. So did God make animals and all types of life everywhere on the planet? Or did He just spread perhaps the kind of life (low lifes) that would be useful in helping prepare the earth for man's (and animal's etc.) spread outward? We should be I think careful in blanket assumptions, like He made men, and all creatures by the billions, all over the earth in a New York minute! Is this what the evidence shows us? If it is, then can you tell us what kind of effect the split had that would have been so selective in fossilizing just the low lifes? I'm willing to rule out things if it is really not the truth, and not according to the records, which include the bible. Also, could you try not to take up 14 short posts to make a point? Spit it out, man!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 07-10-2004 1:14 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 07-10-2004 2:04 AM simple has not replied
 Message 41 by jar, posted 07-10-2004 2:05 AM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 232 (123531)
07-10-2004 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by arachnophilia
07-09-2004 10:54 PM


Re: through the looking glass
quote:
you completely ignored my biblical evidence that people were not immortal inside the garden if eden
I'm salivating for the time I deal with that one, but would prefer to try to keep it for now, not a bible debate, which I have little worry about. The question is, does not this death of cambrian creation life better fit the evidence than one of evolution? If not, why not?
quote:
nice and all, but where did cain's wife come from? not adam and eve.
No problem for me. But see above answer.
quote:
wihc contains triassic and early jurassic rock, and bryce canyon, which contains jurassic through tertiary (almost modern) rock, that's about 9000 feet of sedimentary deposits.
OK, and these sedimentary layers relate how to the cambrian life that died? Are you suggesting they all are part of the cambrian?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by arachnophilia, posted 07-09-2004 10:54 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by arachnophilia, posted 07-10-2004 2:19 AM simple has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 232 (123532)
07-10-2004 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by simple
07-10-2004 1:59 AM


Re: The real cambrian explosion!
Well, since there is no evidence of any split it would be pretty silly to even speculate about that wouldn't it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 1:59 AM simple has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 232 (123534)
07-10-2004 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by simple
07-10-2004 1:59 AM


Re: The real cambrian explosion!
So what died during the Cambrian die offs?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 1:59 AM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 232 (123535)
07-10-2004 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by edge
07-10-2004 1:57 AM


creation creatures in stone
quote:
Such as?
Such as the cambrian fossils in question, and the old evolutionary attempt to explain them, as opposed to cambrian creation life explaining it better.
quote:
you're going to have to come up with something concrete to be taken seriously here.
My attempt here to take a specific layer, I thought was a concrete attempt at trying to explain it better. I am not getting much in the way of a fight from you guys. Is it just because they stuck this here on the misc area, and not too many bright lights frequent it? Or because you are ill prepared for a challenge on this front?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by edge, posted 07-10-2004 1:57 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by edge, posted 07-10-2004 1:08 PM simple has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 43 of 232 (123536)
07-10-2004 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by simple
07-10-2004 2:00 AM


Re: through the looking glass
I'm salivating for the time I deal with that one, but would prefer to try to keep it for now, not a bible debate, which I have little worry about. The question is, does not this death of cambrian creation life better fit the evidence than one of evolution? If not, why not?
no, the question is essential for arguing your point of view. you ARE arguing the bible, in some fashion, because what else have you based this speculation on? my point is that it is not even an accurate rendition of what the bible says.
and no, it doesn't fit creation better. you have to do these amazing mental gymnastics of "well maybe it killed off all of this type, without leaving any evidence that anything else existed at the same time." periodic extinctions are pretty common in the earth's history. they can't all be explained by the flood, and adding "death rays" isn't helping.
No problem for me. But see above answer.
yes, it is. you said that there were no other people besides adam and eve, who were originally in eden. the bible mentions someone who was not.
OK, and these sedimentary layers relate how to the cambrian life that died? Are you suggesting they all are part of the cambrian?
no, they're ON TOP of cambrian and precambrian rock. the simple amount of stuff on top of those layers suggests that, by your theory, we're accumulating one and a half feet of rock a year, which simply isn't so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 2:00 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 3:17 AM arachnophilia has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 232 (123546)
07-10-2004 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by arachnophilia
07-10-2004 2:19 AM


best explanation omits Granny
quote:
no, they're ON TOP of cambrian and precambrian rock. the simple amount of stuff on top of those layers suggests that, by your theory, we're accumulating one and a half feet of rock a year, which simply isn't so.
It suggests no such thing! What would how the earth was near the time of Eden, have to do with today's layer accumulation rates? Or the time of the flood?
quote:
"well maybe it killed off all of this type, without leaving any evidence that anything else existed at the same time."
Existed? I haven't heard any arguements about how life was concentrated in Eden, except for some types. So, till I can get past that, I don't need to go any further. If I do need to, I can go a hec of a lot further.
quote:
yes, it is. you said that there were no other people besides adam and eve, who were originally in eden. the bible mentions someone who was not
Dashing your pet bible ideas. as tempting as it is, is not my priority now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by arachnophilia, posted 07-10-2004 2:19 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by arachnophilia, posted 07-10-2004 4:54 AM simple has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 45 of 232 (123559)
07-10-2004 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by simple
07-10-2004 3:17 AM


Re: best explanation omits Granny
It suggests no such thing! What would how the earth was near the time of Eden, have to do with today's layer accumulation rates? Or the time of the flood?
you're talking about cambrian rock. do you realize there's more than a mile of other rock on top of it in the geologic column?
Existed? I haven't heard any arguements about how life was concentrated in Eden, except for some types. So, till I can get past that, I don't need to go any further. If I do need to, I can go a hec of a lot further.
so cambrian life existed all over, but more "advanced" life was localized? you're grasping at straws here.
Dashing your pet bible ideas. as tempting as it is, is not my priority now.
no, seriously. my objection to your argument, which hinges on no one existing outside eden, has gone unanswered otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 3:17 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 5:12 AM arachnophilia has replied

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