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Author Topic:   Problems with the first life
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 16 of 138 (124659)
07-15-2004 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
07-14-2004 3:03 AM


Without an ozone layer this cell would receive heavy doses radiation from the sun- obviously this would kill it.
In addition to all of the other excellent responses in this thread,
Dosing of the first cell or pre-cells with radiation would have increased mutation/breakage/rearrangement rate in the nucleic acids of those cells, thus potentially accelerating evolution.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by coffee_addict, posted 07-15-2004 3:40 AM pink sasquatch has replied
 Message 20 by tubi417, posted 07-15-2004 2:52 PM pink sasquatch has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 17 of 138 (124660)
07-15-2004 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by pink sasquatch
07-15-2004 3:31 AM


ps writes:
Dosing of the first cell or pre-cells with radiation would have increased mutation/breakage/rearrangement rate in the nucleic acids of those cells, thus potentially accelerating evolution.
Thanks Somehow, I have completely missed this possibility.
Edited to change the last word in the previous sentence from point to possibility.
This message has been edited by Lam, 07-15-2004 02:41 AM

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 138 (124675)
07-15-2004 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
07-14-2004 3:03 AM


your topic is logical
life can not be created -ocationally- by chemical reactions -ONLY-.in the very short age of earth to be so. There must be a reason -the same first reason - that created the whole univerce before.Is not it true???!!!

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 19 of 138 (124677)
07-15-2004 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by dandon83
07-15-2004 7:02 AM


Re: your topic is logical
life can not be created -ocationally- by chemical reactions -ONLY-
I have no idea what 'ocationally' means. However taking just 'life can not be created by chemical reactions' this statement is demonstrated false every single time anything reproduces. There is nothing mystical about life; it's just chemistry in action.

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tubi417
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 138 (124737)
07-15-2004 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by pink sasquatch
07-15-2004 3:31 AM


"You answered this in the first part of your paragraph - the ocean protects it, if it's deep enough."
"Dosing of the first cell or pre-cells with radiation would have increased mutation/breakage/rearrangement rate in the nucleic acids of those cells, thus potentially accelerating evolution."
pink sasquatch, you and crashfrog have different arguments

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-15-2004 3:31 AM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 22 by Loudmouth, posted 07-15-2004 3:00 PM tubi417 has not replied
 Message 23 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-15-2004 3:35 PM tubi417 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 21 of 138 (124739)
07-15-2004 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by tubi417
07-15-2004 2:52 PM


tubi417 writes:
pink sasquatch, you and crashfrog have different arguments
They are two different, though related, arguments. One points out that because the radiation doesn't penetrate deeply through water, increasing depth provides increasing protection from it.
The other points out that the greater the radiation, the greater the mutation rate, potentially accelerating evolution.
You can combine these two arguments to conclude that the deeper an organism resides in the ocean, the slower its rate of mutation due to radiation.
--Percy

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 138 (124740)
07-15-2004 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by tubi417
07-15-2004 2:52 PM


quote:
pink sasquatch, you and crashfrog have different arguments
And their arguments vary as wildly as the theories regarding abiogenesis. There are quite a few pathways that have been suggested, but at this time it is hard to tell which is right. What we do know is that the chemistry that occurs in the human body, or within any organism, is no different than the chemistry you did in high school. There is nothing special separating the worlds of inorganic chemistry and organic chemistry. There is nothing separating the chemistry of life from the chemistry of non-life. In other words, there is no reason that life COULD NOT HAVE arisen from non-life. What scientists are working on now is the plausibility of certain pathways. I am confident that scientists will create life from non-life at some point, but I will freely admit that this is personal belief not supported by any evidence.

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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 23 of 138 (124750)
07-15-2004 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by tubi417
07-15-2004 2:52 PM


Tubi-
Crashfrog and I do not contradict each other's arguments.
See Percy's message #21 - it is clear and concise.

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dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 138 (125614)
07-19-2004 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Dr Jack
07-15-2004 7:30 AM


Re: your topic is logical
If we accept that life had been exist due to some chemical reactoins ;we -surely-will face the truth that the earth age is too short to be enough .Such reactions (that can creat a such various complicated organisms)will take many many multiples of earth time (if it could be realy).

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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 07-19-2004 6:39 AM dandon83 has replied
 Message 33 by Loudmouth, posted 07-19-2004 6:07 PM dandon83 has replied
 Message 34 by coffee_addict, posted 07-19-2004 11:42 PM dandon83 has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 25 of 138 (125616)
07-19-2004 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by dandon83
07-19-2004 6:16 AM


Re: your topic is logical
Would you care to present the mathematics that leads you to that conclusion? I'm curious to know since we don't have a definite path for the origin of life, I can't really see how you could possible calculate it's probability.

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Replies to this message:
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dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 138 (125620)
07-19-2004 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Jack
07-19-2004 6:39 AM


okey
let us begin step by step
but first, I would like to know if you beleive that life had been created without a creater.!!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 07-19-2004 6:39 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 27 of 138 (125621)
07-19-2004 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by dandon83
07-19-2004 6:52 AM


Re: okey
Yes, I do.
(Edit: although I would use the term 'originated' rather than 'created')
This message has been edited by Mr Jack, 07-19-2004 05:58 AM

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dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 138 (125624)
07-19-2004 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Dr Jack
07-19-2004 6:57 AM


q
q
This message has been edited by dandon83, 07-21-2004 05:30 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 138 (125626)
07-19-2004 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by dandon83
07-19-2004 7:30 AM


a primative chemical reaction !!
Imagine with me please .
the earth is born having elements and some simple compounds.most of it is water . atoms are moving colliding with each other, combining ,forming a large molecule such as proteins (which will play a great role in life -later-)how long -do you think- such a procces will take? then a molecule with an another and another gathered to form a primary cell. what make a molecule rather than the others to be a membrane to protect the cell from outer conditions??!!! can you tell ?? now this living cell found that it must do some procceses to keep living !!okey .reproducing! how could a mindless molecules know how to divide the cell into two similar cells??!how to know what essential components must exist in both to keep living??!!!!do you want me to continue??

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Replies to this message:
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dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 138 (125627)
07-19-2004 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Dr Jack
07-19-2004 6:57 AM


reply on 29
okey

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