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Author Topic:   Discovery Channel - "the top 10 unexplained mysteries"
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 43 (126268)
07-21-2004 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by sidelined
07-20-2004 1:46 PM


Re: 'Re: Pure Energy - Sidelined
quote:
Sorry old man I am just trying to get it clear with you that statements such as "pure energy" are meaningless in science since we do not know what energy itself actually is.It is an abstract value that we measure in given situations that remain the same as dictated by the law of conservation of energy.
Then why do scientists use it in a sentance?
quote:
...It reenacts events that occurred just after the Big Bang, when some of the pure energy that filled the cosmos became all the matter that now exists.
Again, this quote is from Discover Magazine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by sidelined, posted 07-20-2004 1:46 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by sidelined, posted 07-21-2004 9:04 PM Mission for Truth has replied
 Message 36 by Loudmouth, posted 07-22-2004 5:52 PM Mission for Truth has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 32 of 43 (126383)
07-21-2004 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Mission for Truth
07-21-2004 12:27 PM


Re: 'Re: Pure Energy - Sidelined
MTW
It would likely be that they are writing to the general public and try to write to that audience rather than be more accurate and confuse the issue. Also they may not be specialists in a given field but rather science writers with a general knowledge of the field.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Mission for Truth, posted 07-21-2004 12:27 PM Mission for Truth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Mission for Truth, posted 07-22-2004 1:22 AM sidelined has not replied

  
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 43 (126455)
07-22-2004 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by sidelined
07-21-2004 9:04 PM


Re: 'Re: Pure Energy - Sidelined
They're physicists. So, you may be right they may not want to complicate things for the general public, understandable, but I think by saying 'pure energy' they mean exactly that only probably more complex. I don't see how pure energy could mean something else totally.

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Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 34 of 43 (126586)
07-22-2004 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Mission for Truth
07-22-2004 1:22 AM


Re: 'Re: Pure Energy - Sidelined
I don't see how pure energy could mean something else totally.
Well perhaps you don't see. That and an article in a light weight popular magazine have very little to do with anything.

This message is a reply to:
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Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 43 (126594)
07-22-2004 12:30 PM


Perhaps someone can translate for me then what really happened at the start of the universe and what was really there?

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Loudmouth, posted 07-22-2004 5:57 PM Mission for Truth has replied
 Message 40 by 1.61803, posted 07-23-2004 12:41 AM Mission for Truth has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 43 (126736)
07-22-2004 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Mission for Truth
07-21-2004 12:27 PM


Re: 'Re: Pure Energy - Sidelined
As to "pure energy", it is somewhat of a colloquial term, a term for the masses. I am not a physicist, but I have heard the term loosely used when describing matter/anti-matter, as in "If one atom of matter hits another atom of anti-matter the result is pure energy". In this case, the resultant is only energy and no mass, so maybe not exactly what you are talking about. Energy itself is not directly observable, but it's effects on matter can be observed.

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 43 (126737)
07-22-2004 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Mission for Truth
07-22-2004 12:30 PM


quote:
Perhaps someone can translate for me then what really happened at the start of the universe and what was really there?
If I could I would win the Nobel Prize.
My understanding is at the very start of the universe there was positive energy, negative energy, matter, and anti-matter. At the very, very start of the universe, there was just energy because the heat involved did not allow the formation of matter (or anti-matter). However, most theorize that the overall energy content was zero, being that gravity is considered negative energy. Just a slight increase of matter over anti-matter (through some undiscovered mechanism) allowed the formation of the physcial universe. Again, I am not a physicist, so don't take this as the final word.

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 Message 35 by Mission for Truth, posted 07-22-2004 12:30 PM Mission for Truth has replied

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Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 43 (126757)
07-22-2004 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Loudmouth
07-22-2004 5:57 PM


quote:
If I could I would win the Nobel Prize.
True enough!
Well, whatever pure energy is, whether it's real or just a form of measurement, etc. it's an interesting concept from the viewpoint of the after life.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by sidelined, posted 07-23-2004 12:24 AM Mission for Truth has not replied
 Message 41 by coffee_addict, posted 07-23-2004 12:53 AM Mission for Truth has not replied
 Message 42 by Loudmouth, posted 07-23-2004 1:15 AM Mission for Truth has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 39 of 43 (126823)
07-23-2004 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Mission for Truth
07-22-2004 7:06 PM


MTW
it's an interesting concept from the viewpoint of the after life.
I do not see the connection.Could you explain?

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 40 of 43 (126828)
07-23-2004 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Mission for Truth
07-22-2004 12:30 PM


Well which version of the beginning do you want? Hindu, Islam, American Indian, I believe every culture has they're creation stories. Science does not pretend to know. All one can say is that something did in fact happen. Science lets religion fill in the gaps.
It is only when religion contends to KNOW is there a conflict. There is no way to know for sure pre big bang. just as there is no way to see your own eye,(without a mirror) or feel you own thumb with your thumb.(same hand)

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 41 of 43 (126833)
07-23-2004 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Mission for Truth
07-22-2004 7:06 PM


"Pure energy" cannot be directly observed. Energy is the ability to do work (as in work in a scientific sense). We can only observe the effects of energy on other things.
In other words, the phrase "a being of pure energy" doesn't make sense at all, unless we are talking about an alien with a technology so advance that it generates some kind of field to literally trap energy in some kind of form without mass. You often see that in some science fiction show.

The Laminator

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 43 (126840)
07-23-2004 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Mission for Truth
07-22-2004 7:06 PM


quote:
Well, whatever pure energy is, whether it's real or just a form of measurement, etc. it's an interesting concept from the viewpoint of the after life.
More than likely, when people claim that the person they see is "pure energy" they are equating their visions with stuff they watched on Star Trek. Previous cultures might have called it a "Ball of Fire" or "St. Elmo's Fire". I think pure energy is meant as a descriptive tool instead of a diagnostic tool. It isn't like people are measuring the being with their tricorders or anything

This message is a reply to:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 43 of 43 (126921)
07-23-2004 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by coffee_addict
07-23-2004 12:53 AM


Lam
Energy is the ability to do work
Work involves transfer of energy. Energy can be unavailable for work {hence entropy}.When something is in thermodynamic equilibrium with its surroundings then energy will not flow or do work.
alien with a technology so advance that it generates some kind of field to literally trap energy
What is this field though?

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