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Author Topic:   Questionable parentage?
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 1 of 12 (127385)
07-24-2004 8:55 PM


I have a question concerning the inerrancy of the bible and I do wonder if this is going to make for some real twisting of words as it seems pretty airtight.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
But obviously this is not His only begotten son as demonstrated here.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
So which of these two is the incorrect statement?

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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 12 (127508)
07-25-2004 3:36 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 3 of 12 (127510)
07-25-2004 4:11 PM


Dare we posit that the OT ones were created sons, not begotten ones? I'm not too sure that will fly with the literalist camp...

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 4 of 12 (127524)
07-25-2004 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
07-24-2004 8:55 PM


"beget" is the key.
jesus was the only son of god that he actually boffed a woman to make.
"sons of god" is also a general term in the torah for angels, etc. adam, i think, is also refered to as a son of god.
but if you really must pick one or the other, go with genesis. john's a load of propaganda anyways.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 12 (127573)
07-25-2004 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
07-24-2004 8:55 PM


If you really want to research the Sons of God then it might be a good idea to check out the Book of Enoch.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 12 (127575)
07-25-2004 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by arachnophilia
07-25-2004 6:13 PM


Beget, begot, forgot...
Sadly, I've been called a bastard for reasons other than being the son of man.

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 7 of 12 (127580)
07-25-2004 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
07-24-2004 8:55 PM


Yet what is mingled therein? There are parts that make light of this;
Gen;6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
John;3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Therefore, He that is the light, is the only begotten son. And unlike these men - he is not of this world, because if he were, he would be described as likened unto those in Genesis 6;5.
Yet the Word was with God, in the beginning. He gave us power "to become the sons of God". (similar words) - yet we are carnal, and the word carnal is the difference.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-25-2004 10:12 PM

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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 8 of 12 (128248)
07-28-2004 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
07-24-2004 8:55 PM


Hebrew kings were considered to be sons of God.
There are at least two verses of scripture which make this quite clear.
1). The LORD comes to King David and says,
"Behold, a son shall be born to you; he shall be a man of peace. ... his name shall be Solomon ... He shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish his royal throne in Israel for ever." 1 Chronicles 22:10 RSV
These are the same things which were said of Jesus.
2). In a psalm (2:7) the LORD says to the king,
"You are my son, today I have begotten you." RSV.
Which the Living Bible accurately renders:
"You are my Son. This is your Coronation Day."
Thus, what is generally supposed to be simply a religious question regarding the offspring of deity, is in fact a highly political question which has everything to do with the divine right of kings.
Make no mistake, ladies and gentlemen. Christianity does not promote a democratic republic.
Remember this: It's King Jesus, NOT President Jesus.
db

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 9 of 12 (128848)
07-30-2004 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by doctrbill
07-28-2004 12:45 AM


2Sa 13:1 And it came to pass after this, that Absalom the son of David had a fair sister, whose name [was] Tamar; and Amnon the son of David loved her. Son as used in this passage is the same as it in this one.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
The word used for son is ben{bane} and this is also throughout for any son. Same word same context same meaning.
.
This message has been edited by sidelined, 07-29-2004 11:01 PM

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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 10 of 12 (128914)
07-30-2004 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by sidelined
07-30-2004 12:01 AM


sidelined writes:
Same word same context same meaning.
Apparently so. Ben is also translated 'children' as in 'Children of Israel.'
Perhaps I have missed something. Does this establish a point for you?
db

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 11 of 12 (129069)
07-31-2004 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by doctrbill
07-30-2004 8:37 AM


doctrbill
It establishes only that God has not been content to have but one son and has indeed been somewhat prolific in the Old Testament.

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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 12 of 12 (129071)
07-31-2004 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by sidelined
07-31-2004 12:55 AM


One might say that he was "The Father of His Country."

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