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Author Topic:   Humans of the future?
Hangdawg13
Member
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 46 of 82 (126832)
07-23-2004 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Steen
07-22-2004 10:00 PM


I think diseases resulted after the fall from accumulating mutations, and even more so after the flood from bacteria and viruses, which were forced to evolve new equipment in the new environment. Their new equipment was used against their original host organisms causing infectious diseases.

But that's just my personal opinion.

It makes me wonder again about the question I raised in another forum, "What would a human be like if all of his pseudogenes were fixed?"


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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 82 (126902)
07-23-2004 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hangdawg13
07-23-2004 12:50 AM


quote:
Our lifespan has increased in recent times due to unnatural causes.

How can anything created by god be unnatural? And, wouldn't it be sinful not to learn about his creation and live as best we can in it?


This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8968
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 48 of 82 (126960)
07-23-2004 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Hangdawg13
07-23-2004 12:53 AM


fixed pseudogenes
It makes me wonder again about the question I raised in another forum, "What would a human be like if all of his pseudogenes were fixed?"

I don't know how many there are but I suspect dead is how he would be. If there are too many then one change of that size might be too much. When one gene at a time is broken other changes can happen with that situation in the "enviroment". Making all those changes at once might be a bad idea.

This message has been edited by NosyNed, 07-23-2004 10:43 AM


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Hangdawg13
Member
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 49 of 82 (126987)
07-23-2004 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by contracycle
07-23-2004 5:18 AM


How can anything created by god be unnatural? And, wouldn't it be sinful not to learn about his creation and live as best we can in it?

We created modern medicine and modern sanitation devices. If we hadn't, our life spans would be back to where they were before.

There's nothing sinful at all about this.

I'm just saying the recent increase in lifespan is attributable to Man's inventions.


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Steen
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 82 (127618)
07-26-2004 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hangdawg13
07-23-2004 12:50 AM


quote:
Our lifespan has increased in recent times due to unnatural causes.
Indeed. So certainly, if GOD had "designed" us, then it was a flawed design, if we are ourselves able to improve that design and expand our lifespan. That is a strong argument against this creationist derivative of "design."

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Steen
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 82 (127619)
07-26-2004 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Hangdawg13
07-23-2004 1:19 PM


quote:
We created modern medicine and modern sanitation devices. If we hadn't, our life spans would be back to where they were before.

There's nothing sinful at all about this.

I'm just saying the recent increase in lifespan is attributable to Man's inventions.


So God did a lousy job to begin with, if we were designed." Are humanity a "lemon"?

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Bushido
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 82 (127784)
07-26-2004 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-26-2004 11:49 PM


This is just an idea that i'm trying to expand on currently through my research at the university. I have always had the idea that instead of the progression of the human genome into some more genetically sophisticated being, humans are experiencing genetic degredation resulting in the more prominent diseases of heredity which we are seeing more and more of in this day than ever before.

Possible mechanisms of this degredation could be a bottle neck that may have happened in our ancient history. This would cause less diversity within the genome, thus, promoting imbreeding. I also think that it is a possibility that random genetic drift may have much more of an impact on our species than most think. In many areas we can classify numbers of subpopulations that have a great chance of fixation of deletarious alleles, especially in the poorer areas where people tend to live their entire lives within a distinct geographic location and interbreed with other people native to that area.

I have witnessed this first hand traveling through the impoverished areas of the midwest where famillel disorders are common.

Maybe this is happening on a greater, yet much slower scale, world-wide.

Anyway, i think this is an interesting alternative view to the thought that man is evolving through forward progression into some more advanced and better fit, being.


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Hangdawg13
Member
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 53 of 82 (128092)
07-27-2004 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Steen
07-26-2004 1:59 AM


No, I think the original argument I butted in on was that factors after the fall of Adam led to the decrease in lifespan. Something was said to the effect that recent increase in lifespan is contrary to this notion. I was just saying that this recent increase in life span is due to unnatural causes, so it doesn't really have anything to do with the consequences of the fall.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8968
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 54 of 82 (128219)
07-27-2004 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Bushido
07-26-2004 12:43 PM


Yet again
Anyway, i think this is an interesting alternative view to the thought that man is evolving through forward progression into some more advanced and better fit, being.

And again, you show that you don't know much about evolution.

The "forward progression" is a significant misunderstanding. Even the "better fit" is somewhat oversimplified.

At all points in time a population consists of individuals that are "fit enough". This is relative to the environment of the time, including all the other members of the same species. Humans aren't going anywhere other than being selected for the current environment. That might mean "better" if you define better in some specific way.

If you think smarter is better there is a possibility that, like dogs, as we become more 'domesticted' we may be less smart than "in the wild". But who says smarter is better?

What is "better" is whatever works for now.


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Deimos Saturn
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 82 (128362)
07-28-2004 11:18 AM


The ultimate corporeal form
From a creationist viewpoint

If you think about how imperfect we are compared to how perfect we really are, we are perfect hands down. My arguement is we are only one step up from being incapable of being ill, injured, or dead for that matter.

We have literally reached an evolutionary finish line, this finish line exists for all creatures since intelligence to manipulate the environment would logically be much more favored than just the ability to run fast and have big teeth. With our brains, we are capable of altering our own DNA or having nano technology, we can make the next generation of people practically immortal and perfect. From an evolutionist viewpoint, we are done evolving because we have achieved the prized possession, which is a brain capable of inquiring the most miniscule infinitesimal whats and whys. Now all we have to do is upload our brains into computers where we can live eternally in a massive mainframe virtual construct somewhat like paradise or upload our brains into "star fish bushes". http://www.jrmooneyham.com/ult.html
that's if we don't suddenly go through a nuclear war or ice age or an mass extinction asteroid doesn't hit the earth or an alien race suddenly enslaves all humans, or Artificial Intelligence wipes us out seeing us as a threat to their survival, or a super virus kills 99% of the human population. But I have hope none of that happens


Nihilism is the answer, and it's not what you think...
www.hatem.com

  
Bushido
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 82 (128377)
07-28-2004 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by NosyNed
07-27-2004 11:16 PM


Re: But Still!
quote:
Humans aren't going anywhere other than being selected for the current environment.

Now would you agree or disagree that our current enviroment has been manipulated to the point were selection has been minimized. Disease is still in existence, which is the primary tool of selection on our population in my opinion, since predation and enviromental dangers have a low effect on humans. Yet as technology advances, our species seems to be moving further away from "survival of the fittest," causing diversity within our genome. It is to my understanding that natural selection aids in diversifying a population which was contrary to the popular pre-Malthus beleif of genetic blending.
Now, with this in mind, a minimization of the effects of natural selection would cause a population's gene pool to gradually change from diverse to uniform. My point goes beyond the mistake I regretfully made in the choice of words within my last post. I am trying to say that, if in fact, natural selection has been sedated in our culture or will be in the future, do you think this will lead to a degredation in our own genome due to the effects of random genetic drift?


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SEBASTES
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 82 (151110)
10-19-2004 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Bushido
07-28-2004 12:10 PM


Re: But Still!
Just a thought!
As we moved forward we lost our hair, gained "some brains", became more adaptable, and able to communicate. We went from nakedness to clothing, from caves to high rises, and we are even starting to go into space. If I we going to give a sketch artist a description of our future relatives what would it look like?

NO HAIR: no reason to protect agains cold "they control their own climate."

LONGER FINGERS: to use on key boards.

LARGER BRAIN CAVITY: able to tap into and use 100% of the brain.

LARGER EYES: no longer need smaller ones for protection from elements/sun.

LACK OF PIGMENT: again no need to protect from the elements.

I believe it would look like an alien from the cover of "communion".


"FROM ONE THING, YOU HAVE LEARNED TENTHOUSAND"

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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 3364 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 58 of 82 (151209)
10-19-2004 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by SEBASTES
10-19-2004 2:03 PM


Re: But Still!
quote:
LARGER BRAIN CAVITY: able to tap into and use 100% of the brain.

Help me out people - don't we already do this (just not all at the same time)?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 704 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 59 of 82 (151213)
10-19-2004 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by SEBASTES
10-19-2004 2:03 PM


You'll see why in a minute
NO HAIR: no reason to protect agains cold "they control their own climate."

Hetero ladies, please answer: hairless men or men with some body hair?


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lfen
Member (Idle past 3914 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 60 of 82 (151279)
10-20-2004 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by mike the wiz
07-12-2004 8:35 PM


Also, Adam lived for nearly a thousand years, therefore that would also fit the degenerative picture.

Given that medical science has doubled our lifespan,

What??? Obviously you have never read Genesis. Now just what are your excuses for assuming that I would incorporate YOUR worldly mindset?

You are putting us on, right? Having a bit of fun, no?

For the sake of examining this argument let's pretend there was a perfectly designed Adam who lived a thousand years and he was a perfect implementation of a perfect design. Then it seems to me that some sort of evolution/de evolution must have happened to replace his retinas and give him an immune system, etc.

Are you really saying God designed a perfect human and then replaced that design with our current genetic information in a fit of anger that his own "perfectly designed creation" didn't function up to his expectations? Talk about having a problem with self defeating anger! I'm beginning to understand why he might come up with the idea of sacrificing his own son as a solution for his angry cursing of his perfectly designed creation.

lfen


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