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Author Topic:   cambrian death cause
mark24
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 6 of 232 (122971)
07-08-2004 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by simple
07-08-2004 2:22 AM


Arkathon,
So you accept that the stratigraphic ordering is a reality, then?
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by simple, posted 07-08-2004 2:22 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by simple, posted 07-09-2004 12:32 AM mark24 has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 200 of 232 (128364)
07-28-2004 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by simple
07-26-2004 7:45 PM


Re: momsy was a tomato?
arkathon,
And present so called scientific ways, are not gospel! "However, Popper's doctrine of "falsifiability" has some fatal problems. It is itself a theory, and supposedly a scientific theory, and therefore it applies to itself. This means that if it is true, we can never verify that it is true!
What utter rubbish! Popperian science is a philosophy, not a scientific theory, just like non-Popperian science. After all this time you still are clueless as to what science is, aren't you? The notion of falsifiability is not gleaned from an observation that is supposed to be deductively tested. It's a bit like complaining than non-Popperian science isn't in & of itself testable, & therefore science, ergo there is no such thing as science!
It is based in the reasonable, equitable, & consistent idea that if something is false, it should be knowably false. I don't suppose you would accept invisible fairies pushing the earth around the sun as valid science. But then again, perhaps you would.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by simple, posted 07-26-2004 7:45 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by simple, posted 07-29-2004 3:43 PM mark24 has replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 214 of 232 (128758)
07-29-2004 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by simple
07-29-2004 3:43 PM


Re: the puzzle
Arkathon,
Anyhow, I think a philosophy, however well intentioned, that says God can not be included in science is fatally flawed! There needs to be some method that allows for an inclusion of the creator.
Even if you removed falsifiability from science your notion of God still wouldn't qualify. Science inductively derives a hypothesis, then deductively tests that hypothesis. Both parts must be met in order for a hypothesis to be considered scientifically valid. It's the deductive testing you need to worry about, that's evidence & predictions. You have none. Anyone can do the first bit: I inductively derive a hypothesis that their are elusive invisible fairies at the bottom of my garden. It's not science, is it?
So, no, science doesn't deliberately exclude your God, it's just that your God has no valid evidence of him/her/itself which which to deduce his existence. If God appeared tomorrow & started banging out miracles left right & center, then we would have ourselves a bona fida deity.
I think what you should be worried about is that god(s) is/are potentially amenable to scientific enquiry, there is just no god that is, or has been. Not atheists or sciences problem. This is why you hear people say religions are fairy tales. Logically & evidentially they are equal.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by simple, posted 07-29-2004 3:43 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by simple, posted 07-29-2004 11:50 PM mark24 has replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 221 of 232 (128891)
07-30-2004 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by simple
07-29-2004 11:50 PM


Re: the puzzle
Arkathon,
Well in this case, inductivity and current deductively should be inducted into the hall of shame! Certainly not the kind that rules Him out first anyhow!
You're pulling my pisser, right? That teeny little scientific rule that requires evidence is a problem for you? That you have no legitimate evidence of a god is your tough, not ours. Live with it. That science requires evidence/testability is perfectly logical & reasonable, the rules aren't going to get changed to be: science requires evidence except for god which it must simply accept as being true. It's not consistent, equitable, or logical.
More than Granny! His Son also banged out miracles left right and center, and raised from the dead to boot. So have most of His writers of the bible, and even some followers over the centuries. The rocks scream out His story, and the heavens declare His glorious creation. So don't blame Him that you can't 'deduce' His existance!
I am becoming concerned for your sanity. You make a habit of blatant unsupported assertions, don't you? There is no scientifically valid evidence that ANYONE or ANYTHING banged out miracles. Certainly, you have presented no reason to accept that as being true here. Another baseless assertion. You want to change the rules again?
Science is a process by which we inductively derive a hypothesis, & with the exception of anything arkathon wants to be true, we must have evidence for & deductively test that hypothesis. Yeah, that sounds reasonable.
I know science will catch up in spades one day under His Personal guidance, and these dark ages will only be humor.
You hope rather than know, & as a point of fact, the Dark Ages are long gone & were filled with the kind of christianity you long for. You were born 1,000 years too late! TO you the renaissance was something that happened to other people, wasn't it?
The moment you make an exception for something scientifically, it becomes pseudo-science. No amount of whining & crybabying is going to change the fact that you require science to change into something that relaxes its standards for your beliefs it ceases to be science.
It goes back to your original statement.
Anyhow, I think a philosophy, however well intentioned, that says God can not be included in science is fatally flawed! There needs to be some method that allows for an inclusion of the creator.
The reason god can't be included in science is because there's no evidence for them, & not because there's an actual rule against gods per se. This is what is meant when people tell you that gods aren't amenable to, or aren't subject to scientific enquiry. If there were, he/she/it would be a valid scientific fact. This reduces your argument to being against a scientific methodology that requires evidence.
If you can't see what's wrong with that you're truly beyond help.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by simple, posted 07-29-2004 11:50 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by simple, posted 07-30-2004 6:24 PM mark24 has not replied

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