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Author Topic:   "The Exodus Revealed" Video II
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 4 of 603 (130762)
08-05-2004 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by JimSDA
08-05-2004 3:30 PM


Re: Charles Knight's challenge...
The Exodus thread was getting a bit disorganized towrd the end, and undoubtedly feelings were being singed. Charells's proposition is still sound however and I belive it should be carried over to this tread. I have not called anyone a 'bullshitter', so for those purposes please consider the following as "my words"
We have seen a number of threads looking at the claims surrounds The Exodus Revealed Video collapse because neither side has been able to stick to the point. I therefore propose the following 2 on 2 debate:
2 supporters of the claims made by Ron Wyatt as relating to the exodus are to submit a piece of evidence for debate using the following format:
EVIDENCE ITEM 1: What is it?
1)WHICH LAB CONDUCTED INDEPENDENT VERIFICATION?
2)WHEN WAS THIS CONDUCTED?
3)WHAT TESTS WERE PERFORMED?
4)WHAT WERE THE RESULTS OF 3?
5) WHERE IS THE DOCUMENTATION AROUND THE VERIFICATION PROCESS? AVAILABLE?
Note we are not discussing any of the following:
Ron Wyatt as a person — the fact that he may well be brave, clever, dedicated have no bearing on the material evidence.
The actual video itself — this is a debate about the veracity of evidence, not a video about the evidence
Any other claims of Ron Wyatt — those are not relevant to the matter at hand.
Let's stick to these points please. If there is a claim, present the evidence, and answer the above questions in order to confirm the evidence.
Agreed?
This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-05-2004 03:58 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by JimSDA, posted 08-05-2004 3:30 PM JimSDA has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Brian, posted 08-05-2004 5:38 PM Yaro has replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 6 of 603 (130785)
08-05-2004 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Brian
08-05-2004 5:38 PM


Re: Charles Knight's challenge...
You would have thought that these references would be a basic requirement in any hypothesis?
From what I have seen, few of these questions are specificaly addressed on these sites. Even if they are, I would like Jim, and other supporters, to refrence the specific sections of the site as well as links wich support their assertions.
The person making a calim should be able to support that claim by giving the information required in those questions. In the future, when an argument is made I would like to see JimSDA and co. quote and/or link to the specific refrence that supports their side.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Brian, posted 08-05-2004 5:38 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Amlodhi, posted 08-05-2004 6:59 PM Yaro has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 10 of 603 (130858)
08-05-2004 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by JimSDA
08-05-2004 8:09 PM


Re: Charles Knight's challenge...
Question: And since when do you people think that you should participate in a debate against a man's published work when you guys won't even read his book?? HAVE ANY OF YOU READ IT?
If Mollers book is the only source for Mollers science then that is a good indication of what kind of scientist he is. Real science is reviewd, studied, tossed around by everyone in the field and is usualy pretty easely accesible from a variety of sources.
Heck, if I google "quantum mechanics" I can get a ton of links, even though its a pretty essoteric field of study. Tons of sources.
Why is Moller the only source for his 'science'?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JimSDA, posted 08-05-2004 8:09 PM JimSDA has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 58 of 603 (131124)
08-06-2004 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by John Williams
08-06-2004 9:14 PM


Re: Map of Exodus route
It still does not prove that they were actually there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by John Williams, posted 08-06-2004 9:14 PM John Williams has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 9:54 PM Yaro has replied
 Message 62 by jar, posted 08-06-2004 10:09 PM Yaro has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 86 of 603 (131241)
08-07-2004 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by JimSDA
08-06-2004 9:54 PM


Re: Map of Exodus route
Yaro, then you need to prove that they were some place else!
I don't need to prove anything, you are the one makeing the claim.
As far as we care, we've proved we are right!
No you havent, you have proven that you have a picture. That picture is a good HYPOTHESIS but now comes the proof part. Head out to the desert and check along that path, look for ancient camp sites, bones, etc.
Once found, take them to a lab, examine them, determine where they came from. Start amassing all the evidence you can. Then, once you have examined all the evidence, posit a conclusion which you would then submit to your peers.
It would be tossed around, others would go on similar digs, they will coroberate your findings (or not), then once all the dust clears, you can put together a good theory as to your discovery.
Capish?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 9:54 PM JimSDA has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 187 of 603 (131629)
08-08-2004 2:14 PM


A diagnosis of JimSDA
Field Guide: Ron Wyatt: The "Real Noah's Ark" claims
This site has many notable points to make, among them are a personal account of an SDA who went with Wyatt on one of his digs. I posted this before, but unfortunetly it was lost in the great crash
Here is the link: http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html
An excerpt:
Over several days we were able to excavate our way down into the same cave system that Wyatt had explored two years before. I'm sorry to report that in the end we came up empty-handed. The connecting channel through which Wyatt had claimed to see the furniture was not there. On the final day of excavation, when we could not see the internal cavern landmarks that Wyatt had predicted, Ron himself finally climbed down into the dim space. After a long time he emerged, looking confused. As we waited respectfully to hear his report, he mumbled a few words like: "It's not the same; it's changed. It's not the way I remember it." There was no opening to be seen, giving a view into an adjacent cavern. There was nothing. In the process of our digging we had come up with a few interesting little objects from Roman times, but they were irrelevant to our main goal.
Our team was disappointed, puzzled, disillusioned. We had enjoyed ten days of close fellowship, with daily shared prayer times, and an excited anticipation of momentous events just before us. Now all those hopes came crashing down. And sadly, Wyatt was not man enough to come clean, to apologize for bringing us on a wild goose chase, or to attempt any kind of explanation. We kept expecting some sort of statement, but he just remained silent, withdrawn. And we were too stunned, and perhaps too sorry for him in his confusion, to demand that he explain.
To this day I cannot give a rational account for the extreme misguidedness that Wyatt revealed. What was happening in his head? His participation in our group worship times had left all of us in no doubt about his sincerity and his devotion to Scripture. He was a competent Bible scholar. He was a brother. Yet he had misled us terribly, and had offered no words of regret or apology or explanation. I have reviewed the whole story many times since then, and am convinced that the church administrator was right: Wyatt might be mistaken, but he himself believed that what he had originally shared was true.
From medical school I remember hearing of a rare state of mind, with a long Latin name, that led its victims to concoct marvelously detailed accounts of events that were pure fabrications, yet which the story-teller himself had come to believe were absolutely true. I am inclined to believe that Wyatt was a florid example of this disorder. He was not a deliberate liar, a fraud. And some of his observations had merit. But I am convinced that some of his "discoveries" were matters which underwent transcription in his mind, and he came to believe as true certain ideas and observations that in fact were his own inventions.
I think the reason JimSDA, that you are not able to see our viewpoint is becaused you were vey close to Ron. I have read your website and in your writtings you express a certain schoolboy fascination with the man.
You belived his stories, worked with him, and likely befrinded him. So admiting that Wyatt was either mistaken, mislead, wrong, or lying, would make you feel as if you had betrayed someone close to you.
So in essence, if we unearthed a secret Wyatt diary in which Wyatt wrote "It was all a big lie! But now im in it too deep...", you would still close your eyes and not belive.
I think it's not so much that you truely think all your evidence is convincing, but rather the fact that you have a personal stake in defending Wyatts honor.
For those who do not know, Jim Pinkoski here was the first curator of the Wyatt Museum, an Illustrator for Wyatt, and a close friend of the man. (And a Sci-Fi fan too! Like me )
Anyway Jim, from what I have read, I think Wyatt wanted to belive so bad he convinced himself of his own fabrications and draged everyone else around him into his web using his great charisma. From the looks of it, Wyatt was a good man, he wasn't trying to lie, he just wasn't a scientist or practicing science. He just wanted to belive that his work was real.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 193 by JimSDA, posted 08-08-2004 2:39 PM Yaro has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 217 of 603 (131690)
08-08-2004 6:54 PM


JimSDA
Well, before the thread is closed I would just like to say that I hope you don't leave us too imbittered. I find your constant flames unwaranted considering that we have done our best to adress your claims. Instead of debating in good faith you have resorted to name calling and brow-beating.
You continue to repeat the same "evidence" and never adress the questions posed by us about that "evidence". Are you bitter because you feel we have all bitten too near the bone?
In any case, I hope you harbor no ill-will to any of us inter-citizens.
This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-08-2004 06:03 PM

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 242 of 603 (131773)
08-09-2004 2:17 AM


Imagine That....
So, the Red Sea Crossing site happens to be a big resort destination in the middle east known for it's beaches and DIVING.
Yet, only Wyatt sees chariott wheeles?

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 301 of 603 (131985)
08-09-2004 3:37 PM


ALERT MODS!
This thread is surpassing the 300 post count limit, before it self destructs like the last one I thought I would issue a warrning to mods. Might I suggest opening an Exodus Video III after 450 posts?
Cuz from the looks of this, this topic is hot and lively. Lets keep it goin, as it's been hours of entertainment so far

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 372 of 603 (132384)
08-10-2004 2:10 PM


APROACHING 400! Posts
Hey Asgara, do you think we should be opening Part III soon?

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by AdminAsgara, posted 08-10-2004 2:14 PM Yaro has not replied
 Message 374 by jar, posted 08-10-2004 2:19 PM Yaro has replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 376 of 603 (132398)
08-10-2004 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by jar
08-10-2004 2:19 PM


Re: APROACHING 400! Posts
I don't know about you Jar, but I find this whole back and fourth, remarkably entertaining. A drama teacher of mine once said, "All good comedy bases it'self around a character or characters, who never learn."
I'll leave it up in the air as to who the comic relif is

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Replies to this message:
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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6517 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 582 of 603 (133547)
08-13-2004 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by Buzsaw
08-13-2004 2:07 AM


Re: It is out there
Nothing is really going to be refuted here until someone from you all's camp is willing to spend some bucks, take some time and go out there and have a look
Apparently, anyone can go look now that the Wyatt Museum offers guided tours of some of their sites for enugh cash
safeco3
Furthermore, those chariot wheels are in a popular Middle Eastern diving spot and resort location. No one can go see those wheeles?
Did swashbuckling Wyatt brave the poolside bar and Marguarita party before hopping on a banana-boat to go look for chariott wheels?
This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-13-2004 09:46 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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