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Author Topic:   Giant People in the bible?
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 31 of 352 (133581)
08-13-2004 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by PecosGeorge
08-13-2004 11:47 AM


Re: Short People
I don't think we are meant to be short.
But how do you know that we are not already freakly tall?
Surely Diet and genetics are more likely causes?
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-13-2004 12:15 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by PecosGeorge, posted 08-13-2004 11:47 AM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
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PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6872 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 32 of 352 (133585)
08-13-2004 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Coragyps
08-13-2004 12:20 PM


Re: Short People
Yup! And some of us make several.
(laughing)

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 Message 30 by Coragyps, posted 08-13-2004 12:20 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6872 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 33 of 352 (133587)
08-13-2004 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by CK
08-13-2004 12:39 PM


Re: Short People
I am tall, next to a grasshopper, and not, next to Lou Alcindor.
Diet and genetics have always been the cause. But they were not for the original (tall) couple.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by CK, posted 08-13-2004 12:39 PM CK has not replied

  
Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5190 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 34 of 352 (133588)
08-13-2004 1:22 PM


There are a lot of stories out there. Evolutionists continue to assert that if it cannot be tested with scientific lab analysis, then it cannot be true.
However, can it be possible that so many myths and legends regarding giants is completely false? Why would the Bible in a number of books mention these individuals so many times? Obviously, these large men were witnessed.
Could this mean that we, as a human race, are degenerating, and not progressing as Evolutionists assert?
There are a lot of stories out there that we can't prove, but Evolutionists need to be open to the possibility that races of giants did exist.
I know most of you here can't stand to hear the name "Ron Wyatt", but whether you like it or not, here it is again.
In Jonothan Gray's film "Surprising Discoveries", he spoke of giants. In Turkey, while investigating Noah's Ark, some of Ron Wyatt's team members stayed at a hotel. At this hotel, there was a giant jaw bone on display. The human jawbone was inside of a glass on a display table in the hotel lobby. I can't remember who it was, but it was either Jonothan Gray, or another team member who took a photo of this giant jaw bone. It was SOOO large, that you could fit the jaw bone COMPLETELY around a normal human jaw bone. It is interesting that this jaw bone was put on display in Turkey---which would fit right into the hypothesis that the descendants of Noah in this region were LARGE beings.
I saw the photo on the video, and indeed, you can distinctly see the massive size of that jaw bone. It is distinctly a human jaw bone. However, as usual, something always goes wrong. I believe it was Andrew who told me that the alloted time for these Ark explorers had come to an end, so they decided that when they came back to the hotel next time they had permission to come in Turkey, they would investigate this giant jaw bone.
Sadly, they returned and the giant bone on display was MISSING! The team asked the hotel managers, and unfortunately they did not know. I believe they were not able to get a hold of the owner...or something of the sort. Situations like this have made it very difficult, indeed, and critics LOVE this kind of stuff.
So the claim that this giant jaw bone exists is NOT MADE! (so don't make the mistake by accusing them of this claim). This is only a STORY, not a claim. We have the photo, but not the bone to compare with normal human jaw bones.
I am beginning to see a pattern here that the stories of giants in the Bible and in other myths and legends is not so far fetched as Evolutionists would like to believe.
This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-13-2004 12:23 PM

~Lysimachus

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Coragyps, posted 08-13-2004 1:37 PM Lysimachus has replied
 Message 38 by jar, posted 08-13-2004 1:54 PM Lysimachus has replied
 Message 52 by Brian, posted 08-15-2004 4:17 PM Lysimachus has not replied

  
Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5190 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 35 of 352 (133589)
08-13-2004 1:27 PM


I personally don't believe that giants reached 20ft.+. BTW, for those creationists who believe this, don't include SDAs in there. SDAs believe that giants did not go beyond 12-14ft tall. Adam was probably no taller than 14 feet.
John Williams,
Exactly how are you coming up with your calculations that Goliath was 6ft 9inches? I have always heard that accoriding to the Bible, the cubit measurements mentioned come out to be 9 ft. 9 inches :{
The majority of Christians have placed Goliath approx. 10ft in height.

~Lysimachus

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 36 of 352 (133590)
08-13-2004 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Lysimachus
08-13-2004 1:22 PM


Could this mean that we, as a human race, are degenerating, and not progressing as Evolutionists assert?
Who asserted that!!?? Certainly none of the "evolutionists" on this board said "progressing!" Fundy nutjobs like those at ICR claim that "evolution" means "progress," but biologists sure don't!
Start reading posts around here, Lysimachus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Lysimachus, posted 08-13-2004 1:22 PM Lysimachus has replied

Replies to this message:
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Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5190 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 37 of 352 (133594)
08-13-2004 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coragyps
08-13-2004 1:37 PM


If Evolutionists believe that a common ancestor of Neanderthal was humped over, that cavemen existed--and that these men knew little of technology, and that man began to evolve to the point where we finally stand upright (from a monkey formed shape to standup straight form), isn't this a form of "progression"?
Giants conflict with this theory. Indeed they do.

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coragyps, posted 08-13-2004 1:37 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 352 (133597)
08-13-2004 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Lysimachus
08-13-2004 1:22 PM


However, can it be possible that so many myths and legends regarding giants is completely false? Why would the Bible in a number of books mention these individuals so many times? Obviously, these large men were witnessed.
So is it equally obvious that Elves, Fairies and Leprechauns exist?
Could this mean that we, as a human race, are degenerating, and not progressing as Evolutionists assert?
Evolutionists do not assert that we are progressing.
I am beginning to see a pattern here that the stories of giants in the Bible and in other myths and legends is not so far fetched as Evolutionists would like to believe.
And the pattern is?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Lysimachus, posted 08-13-2004 1:22 PM Lysimachus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Lysimachus, posted 08-13-2004 2:06 PM jar has replied
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Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5190 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 39 of 352 (133598)
08-13-2004 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coragyps
08-13-2004 1:37 PM


quote:
Start reading posts around here, Lysimachus
I've had my fill, don't worry. I read more than you think--and I personally don't feel much if it is worth my time. I also read articles from talkorigins.com ever so often. But I don't leave it at that. I read the counter arguments from creationists. trueorigins.org has some good stuff as well. I take everything as a whole---lay out ont on a broad table, and place it on a weighing scale.
When I do it this way, I cannot help but see that the evidence for creation is much more reasonable.

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coragyps, posted 08-13-2004 1:37 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5190 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 40 of 352 (133603)
08-13-2004 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
08-13-2004 1:54 PM


quote:
Evolutionists do not assert that we are progressing.
Yes they do, but in an undertow. Evolutionists are beginning to see that the progression theory is not standing, so they've had to revampt their their theories to not get in trouble. Go back to books from the 70s and 80s---that was the original beleif. Evolutionists are constantly have to reshape their theories, as creationism just doesn't allow it stand solid. Some "new" explanation always has to be invented from different angles so that the theory does not fall.
quote:
So is it equally obvious that Elves, Fairies and Leprechauns exist?
Nonsense. There is no comparison here. You are comparing children's story books with ancient historical documents?
quote:
And the pattern is?
That there is good reason to believe that large men existed in early ancient times. We are speaking of the Bible + possible giant bones + ancient document describing large men.
jar, do you believe there is no "god" whatsoever? Can you honestly in your heart convince yourself there is no living creator that initiated life? Honestly?

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 08-13-2004 1:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 352 (133611)
08-13-2004 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Lysimachus
08-13-2004 2:06 PM


Evolutionist do not use progression as more than a series of footprints. In TOE, progression is simply a description of path. It does not apply, and never has applied to anything more than that. Evolution is not from worse to better, smaller to bigger, bigger to smaller, or any other such nonsense. Those that survive long enough to reproduce, suceeded.
Nonsense. There is no comparison here. You are comparing children's story books with ancient historical documents?
Not at all. I was actually using Christian sources for that comment.
"From ghoulies and ghosties
and long leggedy beasties,
and things that go bump un the night
Good Lord preserve us."
Fairies, elves and Leprechauns are as fully documented, perhaps more so, than the giants.
That there is good reason to believe that large men existed in early ancient times. We are speaking of the Bible + possible giant bones + ancient document describing large men.
Well, you have the Bible, one more totally unsupported claim that misteriously disappeared, and the same childrens stories you desparaged above.
jar, do you believe there is no "god" whatsoever? Can you honestly in your heart convince yourself there is no living creator that initiated life? Honestly?
Honestly? I see absolutely no evidence that GOD directly created man. Neither does the vast majority of the Christian Church. The two different myths of creation as outlined in Genesis are most certainly just that, myths.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Lysimachus, posted 08-13-2004 2:06 PM Lysimachus has replied

Replies to this message:
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Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5190 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 42 of 352 (133658)
08-13-2004 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
08-13-2004 2:17 PM


quote:
Evolutionist do not use progression as more than a series of footprints. In TOE, progression is simply a description of path. It does not apply, and never has applied to anything more than that. Evolution is not from worse to better, smaller to bigger, bigger to smaller, or any other such nonsense. Those that survive long enough to reproduce, suceeded.
So, are you saying that Amoeba to Man is not progression? Amoebas had no intelligence. Common ancestors to ape-like creatures were considered to have "less" intelligence than man. Man is considered to be much more intelligent. This is not progression?

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 43 of 352 (133665)
08-13-2004 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Lysimachus
08-13-2004 4:53 PM


Topic!
I almost answered this myself. But it is NOT on topic here. It belongs in "Biological Evolution".
I'll see if I can find someone to propose a topic for this .
See
Message 1
This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 08-13-2004 04:15 PM

This message is a reply to:
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John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 44 of 352 (133749)
08-13-2004 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Lysimachus
08-13-2004 1:27 PM


Re: Lysimachus
I came up with the calculation that Goliath was ~6ft 9 by reading that the two LXX manuscripts and a Dead Sea scroll manuscript of Samuel (4QSama) read "4 cubits and a span". Th KJV reads "Six cubits and a span."
The KJV that most Christians read was derived from the Masoretic Texts.
The reading of "Six cubits and a span" suggests a scribal error.
As for Ron Wyatt's team discovering the giant human jaw. I have seen the photograph. The mandible was 6.5 inches wide bwteen TMJ's. That would correspond to a very large human head perhaps 7.5 inches wide when living.
A Photo of the bone:
Create a Website | Tripod Web Hosting
I certainly don't know of any genuine evidence that would put people at 12-14 feet tall. I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I would sure like to see a copy of a report done by by some physicians who actually examined the giant finger bones that Ron found.
I believe that giant people did exist in the old days, just look at how many Basketball players we have today, a tribe of people that tall, or even taller would give rise to legends of giants. I am not talking about 14 foot people, because that simply has not been medicaly verified, whereas nine feet has.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 45 of 352 (133810)
08-14-2004 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by John Williams
08-13-2004 10:12 PM


Re: Lysimachus
I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I would sure like to see a copy of a report done by by some physicians who actually examined the giant finger bones that Ron found.
I've had a quick google but can't find anything of that nature (anyone else?) - which is surprising Ron generally has some bogus evidence by some un-named person ready to hand. I can find the usual crackpot claims that evil scientists are covering the evidence but that's about it.
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-14-2004 09:38 AM
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-14-2004 09:40 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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