Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Dating the Exodus
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 91 of 317 (134014)
08-15-2004 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Hydarnes
08-14-2004 2:42 PM


Unless you propose a major revision of Egyptian chronology Imhotep lived centuries too early to be identified as Joseph.
Exodus 12:40 gives the duration of Israel's stay in Egypt as 430 years.
If you want an Exodus in 1446 BC then Joseph must have been alive in 1876 BC. Imhotep's date of death is not certain but it is estimated as around 2649 BC BBC - History - Imhotep Chacking out the alternative datings given for the end of the 3rd Dynasty at the narnmer.pl site we still have Imhotep dying 700 years too early.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Hydarnes, posted 08-14-2004 2:42 PM Hydarnes has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 92 of 317 (134015)
08-15-2004 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Vidusa
08-14-2004 12:54 PM


Re: Joseph - Exodus
Hi,
Joseph comes before the pharaoh: 2055 BC
He certainy couldn't have come before a 'pharoah' in 2055 BCE, the word didnt even exist at that time.
The entire Joseph story is written as folklore, sharing many common narrative motifs with other cultures. The episode with Potiphar's wife for example, has numerous parralells with the 'Egyptian tale of two brothers'. The seven year famine motif is found in Egyptian (Djoser), Akkadian (tablet IV of Gilgamesh), and Canaanite (Idri-Mi, Alalakh)texts as well.
The author of Joseph's adventures has a very poor knowledge of Egyptian life and culture as well. Genesis 41 talks of an 'EAST' wind scorching the crops of Pharaoh, but it is actually south winds that scorched them.
Another piece of ignorance on behalf of the author of Joseph is hen he mentions 'pharaoh'. The word didn't exist in the time alloted to Joseph in the Bible. Pharaoh was not used as a title until the reogn of Thutmosis III around 1490 BCE.
Gen 47:11,' land of Rameses' is another anachronism, there could be no 'Land of Rameses' before the beginning of the 13th century BCE, there was no Rameses before this time.
Genesis 41:45, Joseph's wife Asenath does have an EGyptian name, but the name did't exist before the mid 20th Dynasty, about 1100 BCE.
Asenath's father's name, Potiphera, is unattested until the 21 st dynatsy, about 1000 BCE.
There are other problems with the Joseph tales, but they certain were written after 1000 BCE, they certainly do not fit with biblcal chronology.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Vidusa, posted 08-14-2004 12:54 PM Vidusa has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 93 of 317 (134016)
08-15-2004 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Vidusa
08-14-2004 12:54 PM


Re: Joseph - Exodus
double post
This message has been edited by Brian, 08-15-2004 06:06 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Vidusa, posted 08-14-2004 12:54 PM Vidusa has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 94 of 317 (134017)
08-15-2004 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Hydarnes
08-14-2004 2:48 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Hi H,
Actually, I suggest you reform your appraisal of Bryant Wood's finds, as they not only largely disprove Kenyon's earlier artificial conclusions, but provide significant evidence to rule out the 1500 postulate that purportedly eliminates a Joshua conquest.
So you are using Wood, that's fine. We can discuss it on the Jericho / Ai thread as you suggest. Just trying to save you a lot of unnecessary typing.
I haven't seen you respond any further concerning the Habiru/Apiru, did I miss where you conceded that there is a strong possibility that the name *could* have included the Isrealites who were starting to invade canaan at roughly the same time?
You didnt miss anything Hydarnes, I haven't had time to reply yet. If I don't reply to a post Hydarnes it is just because I am extremely busy, but I will reply to everything you post.
The problem began with the discovery of the ‘ha-bi-ru’ in the letters of king IR-Heba of Jerusalem in the Amarna archives. But discoveries of the 30’s and 40's have made the equation invalid. With the discovery and publication of the clay tablets from the Hittite capital Hattusa the proof was produced, in the 1920’s, for Winckler's supposition that the Sumeriogram sa.gaz which, according to the lexicographical lists, has the reading habbatu (m) 'robbers' (and 'itinerant workers'), is to be read in the Akkadian (and Hittite) texts of the Hittite and Syro-Palestinian state offices usually, even if not exclusively, hab/piru (Wieppert, The Settlement of the Israelite Tribes in Palestine: A Critical Survey of Recent Scholarly Debate 1971, SCM Press, London, page 64)
The general characteristic of the 'Apiru turns out to be sociopolitical rather than ethnic or economic. They cannot be characterised as ethnically homogeneous in any one location, nor are they tied to any single economic activity throughout the Near East. In short, an ‘Apiru could have been a Hittite, Hurrian, Phoenician, or almost any other nationality of the ancient near east, they were not identified by their ethnicity. They were a social stratum, best defined as outsiders, people on the fringes of society, or people with no political affiliations.
The one trait that best comprehends all the 'apiru appears to be that of the outsider status they occupy in comparison with the regnant social and political order. The term "outlaw" conveniently catches the double nuance of the 'apiru as those who stand recognisably outside the prevailing order, both as "fugitives" or "refugees" who flee from the dominant order and as "robbers" or "rebels" who prey upon or threaten the dominant order.
But "outlaw," except as broadly redefined, tends to miss the many grades and variations of adaptation of which the 'apiru "outsiders" were capable vis-a-vis the dominant social order. While standing distinguishably apart from the existing order, they also relied upon it insofar as their livelihood was dependent upon the wider society, for which they often worked either as individual "contract labourers" or as hired groups of soldiers, agricultural labourers, or construction gangs. (Gottwald N K, 1979 The Tribes of Yahweh: A Sociology of the Religion of Liberated Israel, 1250-1050 BCE , SCM Press, London, p. 402)
A major problem for equating the ‘Apiru with the Hebrews is that whereas the Hebrews were said to be an ethnic group situated solely within Egypt, the ‘Apiru are mentioned in texts from all over the ancient nears east in a time frame lasting from c.2000 -1200 BCE.
Initially, the apparent similarity between the terms had the ‘biblical archaeologists’ all excited and they were sure that the Amarna ‘Apiru were indeed the Hebrews, but the ‘Apiru are too frequently mentioned in different areas and times to support the equation. For example,
in Mesopotamia, they are in evidence through the periods of Ur III, 1 Babylon, and after;
in the Nuzi texts (fifteenth century) they play an especially prominent role.
documents from Mari (eighteenth century) and Alalakh (seventeenth and fifteenth centuries) attest their presence in Upper Mesopotamia throughout the patriarchal age.
In Anatolia, the Cappadocian texts (nineteenth century) knew them,
as did those of Boghazkoy (fourteenth century).
They are likewise mentioned in the Ras Shamra texts (fourteenth century).
Egyptian documents of the Empire period (fifteenth to twelfth century) refer to them, both as foes and rebels in Asia and as bondsmen in Egypt.
The Amarna letters (fourteenth century), where they appear in Palestine and adjoining areas as disturbers of the peace, are the best witness to them of all.
Obviously, a people found all over western Asia from the end of the third millennium to about the eleventh century cannot lightly be identified with the ancestors of Israel!
(Bright, J. 1972 A History of Israel , SCM Press, London, page 92)
Now according to the dates we have been getting on this thread, the Exodus happened in 1446, but at the same time, in the Alalakh texts from fifteenth-century northern Syria, settlements of 'Apiru are recorded in forty-three places, where they appear as state supported warriors. In a few instances the former occupations of ‘Apiru are listed. In Alalakh Tablet (AT) 180, some of the former occupations of the ‘Apiru are given, they included, ‘an armed thief, a priest, and even an hazannu official’ (Wiseman, D J. ‘The Alalakh Tablets’, British Institute of Archaeology at Ankara, London 1953, p.12)
Now the etymology of the word since the original assertion was that the word Habiru=Hebrew. In 1939 it became clear beyond all doubt that the consonantal element of the word ha-bi-ru, which could not be clearly determined from the cuneiform script, had to be established as '-p-r, whereby at least all etymologies dependent on the root *HBR were excluded, and corresponding attempts with *'BR and the 'ibrim became dubious. The word ‘Apiru is not of Hebrew origin, and, of course, the Hebrew word for ‘Hebrew’ is ibrim. The origin of the word is not known for certain: ‘there is no certainty as to the language (NW Semitic, Hurrian, etc.) or the verbal root from which the sociopolitical technical term (‘Apiru) was originally drawn (Gottwald, page 401).
Another myth that needs to be exposed is this erroneous belief that the ‘Apiru invaded Canaan, it simply didn’t happen that way, there was no outside force that invaded Canaan mentioned in the Amarna Letters. The letters explicitly state that the warfare was purely internal, small Canaanite city states were fighting against other Canaanite city states and the ‘Apiru mentioned were hired soldiers, mercenaries, who were already living in Canaan.
In fact, the ultra conservative Christian scholar John Bimson wrote in 1978 that ‘Study of the Amarna correspondence itself shows that the role of the Apiru in the Amarna period does not resemble the activities of the invading Hebrews during the Conquest as presented in the biblical traditions’ (Redating the Exodus and Conquest, JSOT, Sheffield University Press, page 243).
Canaan during the Amarna period can be summed up as being a collection of city-states ruled by local vassals of Egypt. These local princes ruled cities that were under Egyptian administration but at times they were stilled referred to as ‘kings’. Some of these local ‘kings’ were trying to break free from Egyptian control and at the same time trying to increase the size of their own territories by seizing land from their neighbours. To help achieve these aims, they hired troops and mercenaries, in the Amarna letters (EA) the mercenaries are identified as ‘Apiru or SA.GAZ.’
Your servant was/is in the land of A [bi (]. Its horses and its chariots [they have given ] to the SA.GAZ; they have not g[iven them] to the king, my lord. When Biridashwa saw this deed, he stirred up the city of Yanuamma against me and closed the gate behind me. Then he took chariots from Ashtarte and gave them to the SA.GAZ; he did not give them to the king, my lord. And Arzawiya went to Qadesh and took the army of Aziru. He seized Shaddu and gave it to the SA.GAZ; he did not give it to the king, my lord. See! Itatkama has caused the loss of the land of Qadesh, and behold, Arzawiya with Biridashwa have caused the loss of Abi. (EA 197)
You can see here that it is the local Canaanite princes who are fighting each other, and the victor actually gave the city of Shaddu to the ‘Apiru, this is contrary to the Joshua narratives where the Israelites conquer the entire land by themselves.
In the Alalakh census lists of armed SA.GAZ/'apiru there is more precise information. AT 180 refers to two charioteers among 29 men, AT 182 mentions 7 charioteers among 29 men, and AT 183 and AT 226 speak of 80 charioteers among 1,436 men. Thus, while the great majority of armed 'apiru at Alalakh were infantry, a significant minority were charioteers. Given the general social disdain in which 'Apiru appear to have been held, and the fact that they are listed separately from the upper classes, it is doubtful that these Alalakh 'apiru charioteers were members of the military elite. It is probably more accurate to think of them as former feudal aristocrats, maryannu, who, as fugitives from other city-states, brought their skills in chariotry to Alalakh and were hired to drive chariots owned by local aristocrats. The 'Apiru captives from Canaan who are mentioned in Egypt, however, are never associated with chariots; when they are described as warriors, they, are infantrymen and clearly distinguished from the maryannu chariot-warriors (Wiseman, p.12).
Given the alleged atrocious and vicious way in which the Israelite God was supposed to have treated the Egyptians, EA 286 gives us some confusing information, the letter to an Egyptian commissioner enquires: ‘"Why do you favour the 'Apiru but hate the governors [i.e., local dynasts]?" (Gottwald, p.403). It is difficult to imagine any Egyptian having sympathy for a group whose God just ripped the heart out of his country!
In EA 288, ER-Heba of Jerusalem declares, ’see! Zimridathe town(smen) of Lachish have smitten him, servants who have become 'apiru.. It is beyond me as to how one can become a Hebrew, since Hebrew is an ethnic group surely you have to be born a Hebrew.
What is even more fascinating is that one can become an ‘Apiru for a period of time and them revert back to ones former social status. King Idrimi of Alalakh is forced by a revolt on the part of the inhabitants of his father's royal city of Aleppo to leave the city along with his brothers and lead a wandering life among the bedouin and in the cities of Emar and Ammiya. In Ammiya ‘in the land of Canaan’ he gathers about him people from his home states (Aleppo, Mugis, 'Ama'u), and with them he prepares his return to power.
Before the description of the mobilisation of his expeditionary force he summarises, in his autobiography, the preceding period of flight as follows: ’a-na li-bi erin.mes ltjsa.gaz a-na Mu.y.KAM.MES as-ba-ku 'amongst the 'apiru-people. I remained for seven years', i.e. 'for seven years I was an ‘Apiru' (Weippert, p.67).
Probably the strongest reason for rejecting the ‘Apiru/Hebrew equation can be found in EA 148, where the king of Hazor is said to be giving support to the ‘Apiru, ‘The king of Hasura has abandoned his house and has aligned himself with the `Apiru’.
This contradicts the Book of Judges where Hazor is a source of opposition to the Israelites. One example from Judges 4:2-3 ‘So the LORD sold them into the hands of Jabin, a king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor The commander of his army was Sisera, who lived in Harosheth Haggoyim. Because he had nine hundred iron chariots and had cruelly oppressed the Israelites for twenty years, they cried to the LORD for help.’
The ‘Apiru were not an ethnic group, they consisted of many different nationalities. Obviously, we all know that the Israelites were a people, a nation, an ethnic group that emphasised their distinction from all other groups, therefore we have a distinction between the ‘Apiru and the Hebrews. In Canaan the ‘Apiru were for hire as mercenaries by the local princes, this contradicts the biblical version of the conquest of Canaan.
If you want to suggest that the ‘apiru contained an element know as ‘Hebrews’, then I suggest that you first establish that there was such a thing as a 'Hebrew', you need to show that it is plausible.
I am not sure of the context of Frank Cross’s statement. I would imagine that he is saying that the ‘apiru contained a Hebrew element. But it is difficult to understand what Frank is on about from looking at one sentence.
The Habiru/'apiru/Hebrew lnguistic connection is broken.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Hydarnes, posted 08-14-2004 2:48 PM Hydarnes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Hydarnes, posted 08-15-2004 11:56 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 95 of 317 (134018)
08-15-2004 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Cold Foreign Object
08-14-2004 5:37 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Hi WT
Did you not tell me once that John Garstang's dating of Jericho is unreliable because of his alleged bias for the Bible ?
No, I didnt say that exactly. I said that Garstang's bias for the Bible clouded his judgement and he made connections between the biblical accounts and the material evidence that just weren;t there.
His dating is unreliable because of the contrary evidence to his claims, it has nothing to do with his personal bias.
And that Kenyon's "fortunate" improved dating methods corrected the bias ?
The improved techniques corrected the errors Garstang made in dating the material evidence from Jericho.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-14-2004 5:37 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 96 of 317 (134019)
08-15-2004 6:18 AM


13th centuy Exodus date is holding up extremely well
Just a short summary on my 13th century date.
I would say that my dating is holding out extremely well, I am rather pleased that, despite the fact that all of my arguments are falsifiable, that no one has been able to falsify one of my claims at all!
So far my dating has been tested by the claim that the 1220 dating of Hazor cannot be the destruction by Joshua. The 1220 date for Hazor's destruction is an important part of my claim, and since no one has provided a single solitary piece of contrary evidence, then my association of the 1220 destruction with Jshua still stands.
The 1220/Joshua destruction is easily falsified, to do so all that is required is to point to an earlier end of occupation at Hazor. The supporters of a biblical 1446 would only need to show that Hazor had an end of occupation level around 1400, this would support their dating and falsify my hypothesis.
I am happy that the 1220 destruction of Hazor by Joshua still stands.
The next attempt to falsify my 1220 date is the equation of the Hebrews with the 'apiru by using the amarna tablets.
My claim is that the Exodus has to be after 1350 because the letters from certain people in the amarna tablets come from an area that Joshua was supposed to have utterly destroyed 50 years earlier by biblical dating.
The Amarna Letters do not even slightly hint at an external invasion, which is surprising given the claim in the Bible that 50 years earlier Joshua essentially gutted the land. There is no mention of an 'Israel' in any of the Letters, therefore, my hypothesis still stands.
1247-ish Exodus, 1200-ish Conquest still stands as the BEST date for these events.
Can I elevate the 13th century date from hypothesis to 'theory' as it is the best explanation available?
Oh, does anyone have any contacts in the media?
I am thinking about producing a video
Brian.
This message has been edited by Brian, 08-15-2004 06:28 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-15-2004 7:09 PM Brian has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 317 (134030)
08-15-2004 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by jar
08-15-2004 1:29 AM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
quote:
Please show where in EA 280, 286 or 288 an invasion is shown?
Already addressed
quote:
Please explain how EA 280 is a letter to the Pharoah accusing Abdu-Heba of exactly the same type behaviour that Abdu-Heba blames on others?
I fail to see any direct pertinence. I've repeatedly acknowledged that there was internal strife and intrigue occuring in the region, that's obvious from any reading of the Amarna letters.
quote:
Please show where Habiru is used as a designation of a particular people?
If the above statement isn't confirmation from your own fingers that you aren't even reading before proceeding to "respond", then what it is?
I have told you REPEATEDLY that the word does NOT DESIGNATE ANY PARTICULAR PEOPLE.
quote:
Again, an unspecified expert ploy. This is so tenuous that even you wont make such a claim. There simply is no evidence that Habiru is a designation of the Hebrews.
And considering that said expert was alluded to and named at least a couple times during the course of the last few pages (#24, #77) is ample reason enough for me to identify your (ad lib) accusation as a ruse in itself to ignore your own less than honest treatment of both my words and the data that has been presented.
This message has been edited by Hydarnes, 08-15-2004 10:13 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 08-15-2004 1:29 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Yaro, posted 08-15-2004 9:36 AM Hydarnes has replied
 Message 99 by Brian, posted 08-15-2004 10:04 AM Hydarnes has not replied
 Message 108 by Brian, posted 08-15-2004 3:09 PM Hydarnes has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 98 of 317 (134031)
08-15-2004 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Hydarnes
08-15-2004 9:26 AM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
quote: please show where Habiru is used as a designation of a particular people?
If the above statement isn't confirmation from your own fingers that you aren't even reading before proceeding to "respond", then what it is?
I have told you REPEATEDLY that the word does NOT DESIGNATE ANY PARTICULAR PEOPLE.
I think Jar is asking for a direct indication that the Hapiru mentioned in the letters are refering to a unified group, not necisseraly naming the hebrews.
Kinda like saying the Mujahadim. That only means 'Holy Warrior' and there were many factions there in, tho they were working tword a common goal for the most part. He wants to know where in the letters we get a similar implication.
And considering that said expert was alluded to at least a couple times during the course of the last few pages (#24, #77) is ample reason enough for me to identify your (ad lib) accusation as a ruse in itself to ignore your own less than honest treatment of both my words and the data that has been presented.
Just jumping in here Hydarnes. It's getting quite hard to keep all this info in my head at once . I'm actually interested in this subject and could not find the name of the expert in the previous posts. For my own edification could you do me the favor and name the expert and the work you are refering to?
It would help me out alot. Thanks.
This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-15-2004 08:39 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Hydarnes, posted 08-15-2004 9:26 AM Hydarnes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Brian, posted 08-15-2004 10:09 AM Yaro has not replied
 Message 101 by Hydarnes, posted 08-15-2004 11:15 AM Yaro has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 99 of 317 (134034)
08-15-2004 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Hydarnes
08-15-2004 9:26 AM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Hi Hydarnes,
I don't think you seem to appreciate what the problem is here. It isnt only that 'apiru doesn't equal Hebrew, you also have to contend with the fact that the descriptions of the 'Apiru in the El Amarna Letters 1400-1350 BCE do not resemble the claims made for the Hebrews in the Bible.
The 'Hebrews' were said to be an external invading people, Joshua1-12 outlines some of their military actions, sweeping destruction, great areas of Palestine completely routed by these newcomers. The references to the 'Apiru in the Letters are nothing like this at all. Remember that the Letters date from 1400 BCE, the date the Bible tells us that Joshua was obliterating the population of Canaan. If the 1400 date for the Conquest is true, why is there no evidence of external invasion, why do the Letters never mention the 'Israelites', why are the references to the 'apiru (if they are the Hebrews) so different from the biblical accounts?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Hydarnes, posted 08-15-2004 9:26 AM Hydarnes has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 100 of 317 (134037)
08-15-2004 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Yaro
08-15-2004 9:36 AM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Hi Yaro,
Hydarnes is quoting Dr. Frank Moore Cross. He is well known for his work with the dead sea scrolls.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Yaro, posted 08-15-2004 9:36 AM Yaro has not replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 317 (134055)
08-15-2004 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Yaro
08-15-2004 9:36 AM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
quote:
Just jumping in here Hydarnes. It's getting quite hard to keep all this info in my head at once . I'm actually interested in this subject and could not find the name of the expert in the previous posts. For my own edification could you do me the favor and name the expert and the work you are refering to?
It would help me out alot. Thanks.
You might want to see post #24 in this thread (I already referenced that number in my last post).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Yaro, posted 08-15-2004 9:36 AM Yaro has not replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 317 (134064)
08-15-2004 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by jar
08-15-2004 1:29 AM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
*false post...me Lysimachus--Hydarnes was logged in on this networked comp and I didn't realize...ugh*
This message has been edited by Hydarnes, 08-15-2004 11:10 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 08-15-2004 1:29 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by CK, posted 08-15-2004 12:11 PM Hydarnes has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4157 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 103 of 317 (134065)
08-15-2004 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Hydarnes
08-15-2004 12:07 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
em... anyone spot anything badly wrong with the above post?
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-15-2004 11:13 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Hydarnes, posted 08-15-2004 12:07 PM Hydarnes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Lysimachus, posted 08-15-2004 12:17 PM CK has not replied
 Message 106 by Lysimachus, posted 08-15-2004 12:17 PM CK has not replied

Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5220 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 104 of 317 (134066)
08-15-2004 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by jar
08-15-2004 1:29 AM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
quote:
Again, an unspecified expert ploy. This is so tenuous that even you wont make such a claim. There simply is no evidence that Habiru is a designation of the Hebrews.
Finally, the estiamtes I've seen for dating the Jerusalem letters place them in the mid 1300s, too late for the 1447 Exodus and too early for the more reasonable mid 1200s Exodus.
You really amaze me jar. As of yet, I have not once seen you concede to anything of particular that I or Hydarnes have pointed out. Here Hydarnes is referring to one of the world's most renowned epigraphists, and you will continue to boldly assert that this is "yet another unspecified expert"? I'm not even going to bother mentioning his name, since you know very well Hydarnes has named him.
Jar, you claim to have seen the video "The Exodus Revealed"? I suppose you laughed your way through so much that you didn't even notice or hear that this renowned epigraphist was interviewed RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES. This goes to show how biased you really are. You completely ignore the fact that there are experts out there who support the ideas presented. So basically, you can say that you laughed at several famous doctors. Next time, pay more attention to what you watch, as well as read.
Also, please show yourself a little more open. Brian is a good example for you. Do you want to be known as the one who is place on the "annoying list"? You have a really bad tendency to annoy people--and your attitude really rubs people the wrong way. It can be really really buggy, and I hope you change.

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 08-15-2004 1:29 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 08-15-2004 1:27 PM Lysimachus has not replied
 Message 110 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-15-2004 6:47 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5220 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 105 of 317 (134067)
08-15-2004 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by CK
08-15-2004 12:11 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
ROFL Charles...I edited it...my bad....that's what happens on a network...someone comes, logs in, and posts on one comp. You forget, and think you're still logged in from the last time you posted...argh.

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by CK, posted 08-15-2004 12:11 PM CK has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024