Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Moral Relativism
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 222 of 284 (133135)
08-12-2004 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Sleeping Dragon
08-12-2004 4:47 AM


I suppose you will agree that if everyone on earth are Christians with pure Christian values, then the world will be paradise (no conflict).
First, if the world were filled with Christians with pure Christian values.
.
.
.
.
it would be just about the same as it is today.
People are human. They will behave just about the same way regardless of the system they use as a basis.
If you will work with me perhaps I can explain my position in a way that makes it clearer.
Would you agree that things like lying, stealing, cheating and murder are wrong?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 08-12-2004 4:47 AM Sleeping Dragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 08-12-2004 9:27 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 224 of 284 (133149)
08-12-2004 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Sleeping Dragon
08-12-2004 9:27 AM


Hang in with me if you will, a few more questions coming.
But would you agree that there might be times when each of those might be appropriate and moral behavior as well? For example, the idea of stealing food to keep someone from starving might be excusable and even moral if no other option was available.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 08-12-2004 9:27 AM Sleeping Dragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 08-12-2004 10:26 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 226 of 284 (133173)
08-12-2004 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Sleeping Dragon
08-12-2004 10:26 AM


Okay. Well, it looks like we disagree then. No problem.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 08-12-2004 10:26 AM Sleeping Dragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Amlodhi, posted 08-12-2004 11:19 AM jar has not replied
 Message 228 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 08-12-2004 12:21 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 231 of 284 (133319)
08-12-2004 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Sleeping Dragon
08-12-2004 12:21 PM


No.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 08-12-2004 12:21 PM Sleeping Dragon has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 234 of 284 (133431)
08-12-2004 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by General Nazort
08-12-2004 10:33 PM


Re: Nope
If Germany in 1990 is better than the US in 1831, you are comparing both nations to an ideal standard of moral perfection, and saying that one nation conforms to that standard more closely than the other nation.
No, I'm comparing one to the other. I'm not saying A is closer to C than B is, I'm saying A is better than B. Even then it only applies within the time period I mention. While Germany in 1990 might be better than the US in 1831 (look up that date by the way to see what I'm refering to), it would not necessarily be true if you looked at Germany in 1991 and the US in 1832.
In addition, there might well have been things about the US in 1831 that were more moral than things in Germany in 1990.
It's all relative.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by General Nazort, posted 08-12-2004 10:33 PM General Nazort has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by General Nazort, posted 08-12-2004 11:32 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 237 of 284 (133443)
08-12-2004 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by General Nazort
08-12-2004 11:32 PM


Re: Nope
Again, the time period is irrelevent.
The time period is absolutely relevant. For example, Germeny in 1990 was more moral than Germany in 1940. Japan in 1990 was more moral than 1939.
How can you say that one line is more straight than another line without comparing it to a perfectly straight line?
well, let's give it a try.
Which line is straighter, top or bottom?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by General Nazort, posted 08-12-2004 11:32 PM General Nazort has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by General Nazort, posted 08-13-2004 12:05 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 242 of 284 (133843)
08-14-2004 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by General Nazort
08-13-2004 12:05 AM


So what is absolute morality?
I've asked that question before but so far no one has been able to show that absolute morality.
Can you show it to us?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by General Nazort, posted 08-13-2004 12:05 AM General Nazort has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by General Nazort, posted 08-15-2004 7:09 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 244 of 284 (134148)
08-15-2004 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by General Nazort
08-15-2004 7:09 PM


Re: So what is absolute morality?
Absolute morality is that which you ought to do in a given situation.
So it depends on the situation? In one situation something might be absolutely moral but in a different situation the same action might be absolutely immoral?
Is that realtively what you are saying?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by General Nazort, posted 08-15-2004 7:09 PM General Nazort has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Hangdawg13, posted 08-15-2004 11:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 246 of 284 (134199)
08-15-2004 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Hangdawg13
08-15-2004 11:04 PM


Re: So what is absolute morality?
How was your trip, guy? Hope you had a great one. How about a coffeehouse narative for us, with pictures. Remember, if there are no pics it never happened.
IOW the distinction between right and wrong depends entirely on the situation.
So you are saying it is absolutely relative to the situation?
The point is that a particular action in a particular situation cannot be BOTH right and wrong at the same time depending on who is observing.
Save that one for phase two.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Hangdawg13, posted 08-15-2004 11:04 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Hangdawg13, posted 08-16-2004 12:28 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 248 of 284 (134229)
08-16-2004 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Hangdawg13
08-16-2004 12:28 AM


Re: So what is absolute morality?
Alright... whatever that is?
Well, it's conceivable that there could be a situation where both sides are moral. Unfortunately in life, there are shades of gray (or grey).

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Hangdawg13, posted 08-16-2004 12:28 AM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Hangdawg13, posted 08-16-2004 1:52 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 250 of 284 (134295)
08-16-2004 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Hangdawg13
08-16-2004 1:52 AM


Re: So what is absolute morality?
Very, very good, sir. An excellent example. Once again, I salute you.
So to the Thread Title. Is Morality Relative, depending on society, time, place and environment?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Hangdawg13, posted 08-16-2004 1:52 AM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 257 of 284 (135094)
08-18-2004 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by nator
08-18-2004 6:24 PM


On Christians and morals.
What do you call the fundamentalist Christians who do what they can to escalate and promote the conflict in the middle east because they believe that by doing this they will bring about Armageddon?
There have always been unstable lunatic fringe folk in any group. In this case I would call them Anarchists. Big time Anarchists.
What about the Christians, like Buzsaw and PecodGeorge, who are all too willing to forget all about "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others" when Muslims are concerned?
Terrorists.
But I have had dozens of Christians tell me over the years that once you are "saved", that's it, you're going to heaven.
You don't have to earn your way through good works at all.
Just because they aren't "supposed" to think this way according to you doesn't mean that millions of Christians don't, in fact, think this way.
True, many believe that. We have a few here. But all we can do is try to show them how wrong they are. It's not easy, but that is what we must do.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by nator, posted 08-18-2004 6:24 PM nator has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 260 of 284 (135128)
08-18-2004 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by General Nazort
08-18-2004 11:46 PM


Re: Nope
situations in which every single person, regardless of his/her culture, should do one specific thing. This is a moral absolute.
You keep saying this but when it gets down to specifics, they never seem to prove out. So once again, can you give us an example of a moral absolute?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by General Nazort, posted 08-18-2004 11:46 PM General Nazort has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 271 of 284 (135323)
08-19-2004 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Dan Carroll
08-19-2004 4:39 PM


Re: Nope
For the very continuation of the human species, you rape them.
Wasn't there something like that in the Bible, Lot or someone?
Or some guy that killed his brother and slept with his sister(s), Cain or something like that?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-19-2004 4:39 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024