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Author Topic:   PROOF against evolution
yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 541 of 562 (135403)
08-19-2004 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by CK
08-19-2004 7:17 PM


Re: So you wanna proof?
why do people say that when they clearly don't mean it?
?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by CK, posted 08-19-2004 7:17 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 542 by CK, posted 08-19-2004 7:31 PM yxifix has replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 543 of 562 (135411)
08-19-2004 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 542 by CK
08-19-2004 7:31 PM


Re: So you wanna proof?
see you are still here - people only pretend to leave they always want the last word.
Ooooh... that's the problem.... ok.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by CK, posted 08-19-2004 7:31 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 544 by CK, posted 08-19-2004 7:52 PM yxifix has not replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 546 of 562 (136240)
08-23-2004 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 545 by Percy
08-19-2004 9:45 PM


Percy writes:
The original point I was making was that mutations add information to the genome. The subsidiary point was that mutations can accumulate to cause substantial change.
How? How can they accumulate? How were evolved wings? How mutations accumulated? Where is your "the fittest survive"? Not complete wings are not an advantage -> they are fatal disadvantage, Percy.
But evolution postulates that change happens in tiny increments, and not all at once in the way you describe here. It is not the scientific view of eye evolution that one day a blind organism spawned a sighted offspring. It is instead postulated that there was a progression from light sensitive skin areas to eye spots to multiple eye spots grouped together to form primitive eyes to covered eyes to concave covered eyes to lensed eyes, each providing a greater survival advantage than what went before. I'm no expert on hypotheses of eye evolution, I'm just trying to give a flavor.
Eyes = 2 small balls...how simple is that, isn't it? Really strange how somebody can believe in such nonsense.
Eyes couldn't evolve from a light sensitive cell on the skin. They have to be connected to brain. There is no light sensitive cell on the brain. If there is no brain, no eyes can be evolved. If there is not already existing ("evolved") mechanism to receive and "decode" electric signals created by vision in a brain, no eyes can be created once again... If there are no eyes, no such mechanism can be evolved, that's clear. And this is called a proof that evolution is not possible.
Well, you have to read something about eyes. Here you can find everything (including description of every kind of eye)
eyech6-c.html
Eg. scheme of insect eyes:
http://www.eyedesignbook.com/ch6/fig6-18BG.jpg (a result of mutations?)
DNA code can't develop itself by accidents.
But that's exactly what it does. Mutations are reproductive accidents. Natural selection filters out the unfavorable ones and keeps the favorable ones.
How? How can you use "natural selection filter" when talking about evolution of wings, lungs, heart, bones, eyes etc? All of these can't be created by accumulations of mutations... that's nonsense. Othewise please describe how is it possible?
Evolutionary theory holds that all change is gradual. All the requirements for surviving on air did not need to be available all at once, because the transition from fish to amphibian to land animal was very gradual. One hypothesis for the emergence from the sea is that it occurred in very shallow pools that tended to evaporate, and hence the ability to be able to extract at least some oxygen from the air provided a survival advantage. There are other hypotheses, of course. There may be one involving lung fish, for example.
Evolutionary hypothesis constist of "it occurred", "it happened", "it appeared" etc... but how? That's the question. If there is no evidence, there must by at least theoretical possibility for that process. Don't you think so?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by Percy, posted 08-19-2004 9:45 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by CK, posted 08-23-2004 7:15 AM yxifix has replied
 Message 550 by Percy, posted 08-27-2004 5:56 AM yxifix has not replied
 Message 551 by Loudmouth, posted 08-27-2004 2:55 PM yxifix has not replied
 Message 552 by Percy, posted 08-31-2004 1:54 PM yxifix has replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 548 of 562 (136250)
08-23-2004 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 547 by CK
08-23-2004 7:15 AM


Are you OK, Charles? I don't know what are you talking about. Still confusingly spinning around?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by CK, posted 08-23-2004 7:15 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 549 by CK, posted 08-23-2004 7:21 AM yxifix has not replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 553 of 562 (138548)
08-31-2004 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 552 by Percy
08-31-2004 1:54 PM


Re: Bump for vxifix
Percy:
Hi, sorry, I don't have much time lately for discussions, so my answer is late, of course...so quickly:
Percy writes:
Bird and bat wings are just adaptations from front forelimbs.
Both of us now why you haven't mentioned insect wings, for example.
Their wings have all the same major bones and basic structure as forelimbs. To suggest an example, gradual changes could add some gliding capability, like the flying squirrel with the extra skin between it's forelegs and body.
Did it just appear? Or were there some stages when extra skin was developing. Of course there couldn't be any otherwise it would be fatal disadvantage.
And both of us know why you haven't mentioned how bird wings work, why you haven't mention its feathering.
If gliding provides a survival advantage, then flying squirrels with allele combinations or mutations that make gliding easier or more effective will survive to spread their genes throughout the population.
So... if extra skin and so these kind of "wings" were not "developed" at once, "partly-mutated" animal would naturally die... that's clear.
If we're talking about a creature with a brain, then the skin is already connected to the brain by nerve cells. Any mutation causing some skin cells to be more light sensitive would send signals to the brain when light strikes them. The light would probably be interpreted by the brain as heat or touch contact, depending upon which nerve cells connected to the skin respond, but natural selection would favor those individuals whose brain made the most of the information, and the interpretation of the light signals would improve in the population over time.
This is an evident fantasy I won't comment as you've completely forgotten (ignored?) about a mechanism in brain needed to "decode" signals created by vision I was talking about.
Loudmouth:
Those two small brown dots on the upper left are eyespots. They are not eyeballs, but patches of photosensitive cells arranged inside of a depression, much like a human retina without the rest of the eye. Planarians are able to sense light and the direction the light is coming from which allows them to respond to light stimulus.
These are very very simple "eyes"... yes, there is retina, no lens, no cornea. (these "eyes" are also mentioned in a website I have already mentioned before)
They do all of this WITHOUT A BRAIN. Therefore, your statement is absolutely false.
No. They do all of this WITH A BRAIN. Therefore, your statement is absolutely false.
If you like I can find for you "hundreds" of websites to show you a proof but I don't think you will ask me to do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 552 by Percy, posted 08-31-2004 1:54 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 554 by jar, posted 08-31-2004 4:17 PM yxifix has not replied
 Message 555 by Percy, posted 08-31-2004 5:16 PM yxifix has not replied
 Message 556 by DrJones*, posted 08-31-2004 5:32 PM yxifix has not replied
 Message 557 by jar, posted 08-31-2004 6:04 PM yxifix has not replied

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