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Author Topic:   Show one complete lineage in evolution
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 85 of 246 (128057)
07-27-2004 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by SkepticToAll
07-27-2004 1:16 AM


Re: Weak case so far...
i. There is a mystery about the theory of horse evolution. It arises from the fact that the brain of little Hyracotherium was simple and smooth, as indicated by the smooth inner surface of the fossil skulls. The brain of true horse, Equus, has on its outer surface a complex pattern of folds and fissures.35 Cattle brains are quite similar and equally complex and have an almost identical pattern of fissures. Cattle and Hyracotherium supposedly evolved from a common ancestor which had a simpler pattern of fissures. Therefore, it must be assumed that parallel evolution by chance processes produced the same complex brain pattern possessed by both modern cattle and horses. Such a tale is difficult to swallow. Intelligent, purposeful creation provides a more believable explanation.
Lets look at the brains of the various houses in the evolutionary sequence:
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/ponyexpress/pony2_4/Pe24.htm#Tilly (scroll down a little)
Notice the continuum of brain formations we note from Hyracotherium to Equus - looks pretty much like we'd expect from evolution to me.

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 Message 71 by SkepticToAll, posted 07-27-2004 1:16 AM SkepticToAll has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 162 of 246 (131890)
08-09-2004 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by RAZD
08-07-2004 11:30 PM


Re: PE or not to PE
methinks you mean earliest or oldest common ancestor
Most recent common ancestor is correct - the oldest common ancestor is (possibly) an protein chain near a geothermal vent some 3.5 bya.
but they come to virtually the same thing:
Absolutely not.
would not the oldest common ancestor of all living genetically modern humans also be a genetically modern human?
Yes. But it is only a bound. It is not only possible, but highly likely that there were many generations before 'eve'.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 164 of 246 (132278)
08-10-2004 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by RAZD
08-09-2004 2:10 PM


Re: recent oldest
and the genetic age is not a bound but an indicator of a bound: the age is not absolute and depends on the mathematical model to be correct, which in turn depends on a steady rate of genetic change.
That doesn't make it not a bound, it just means there is a margin for error on the bound.
Although, thinking about it more there is no actual reason that genetically modern humans couldn't post-date the most recent common female or male ancestors.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 178 of 246 (136234)
08-23-2004 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by RAZD
08-14-2004 6:41 PM


Re: similar to bonobos or chimpanzees?
One question that has come to me in the last week, is that if the apparent age of the "genetic adam" is less than the apparant age of "genetic eve" -- would this not argue for more doubling up of genetic markers in the adam lineage than the eve lineage ... and would this not be more indicative of early behavior similar to bonobos (where females roam and join bands where males stay) versus chimpanzees (where males roam and join bands where females stay)?
Not at all. It's indicative of a simple biological fact - men can father have more children than women can mother.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 188 of 246 (136486)
08-24-2004 5:50 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by RAZD
08-23-2004 10:02 AM


Re: similar to bonobos or chimpanzees?
but I am interested in the question of whether the different group gender behavior would show up as different "adam" and "eve" ages for the respective populations.
It would show up differences in the typical number of partners taken by a single male. I strongly suspect that the walrus 'adam' and 'eve' would be seperated by a much greater distance than their human equivalents.
I can't see however how a difference in mobility between males and females would effect their relative distances.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 190 of 246 (136493)
08-24-2004 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Mammuthus
08-24-2004 6:13 AM


Re: similar to bonobos or chimpanzees?
Y chromosome Adam and mitochondrial Eve show reasonably close concordance of age according to several studies documented here
Just a moment...
Both coalesce around 100-200,000 years ago.
I'm not clear on what you're saying here, and the link you gave seems to require a subscription: is this Y-chromosone adam and mitochondrial eve for humans, or for other species?

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 Message 189 by Mammuthus, posted 08-24-2004 6:13 AM Mammuthus has replied

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 192 of 246 (136496)
08-24-2004 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Mammuthus
08-24-2004 6:30 AM


Re: similar to bonobos or chimpanzees?
Right... so the differing ages oft-quoted for Y-Adam and mt-Eve (80,000 and 150,000 respectively) were experimental artefacts then? And the two, in fact, occured at approximately similar times?

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 Message 191 by Mammuthus, posted 08-24-2004 6:30 AM Mammuthus has replied

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