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Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: LIFE! ... on VENUS ??? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I just ran across this article:
Was Venus Alive? 'The Signs are Probably There' (click for full article)
The planet Venus is like Earth in many ways. It has a similar size and mass, it is closer to us than any other planet, and it probably formed from the same sort of materials that formed Earth. For years scientists and science fiction writers dreamed of the exotic jungles and life forms that must inhabit Earth's twin sister. David Grinspoon, a research scientist at the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado, writes in his book, "Venus Revealed," that, through the Mariner 2 and other Venus missions, "we found our 'sister planet' to be chemically alien, as well as hot and dry to quite unearthly extremes. With these revelations, the twin-sister imagery quickly disappeared, and the notion that 'Venus is hell' took hold." Only 20 percent of the sunlight that hits Venus makes it through the cloud cover, while the other 80 percent is reflected back into space. This reduced sunlight doesn't make Venus a cold world, however, because the thick carbon dioxide atmosphere traps the planet's heat. This greenhouse effect on Venus is often cited as a nightmare example of what could happen to Earth if we don't get our pollution under control. In an interview, Grinspoon explains how Venus evolved from a wet planet similar to Earth to the scorching hot, dried-out furnace of today. Then he discusses the possibility that Venus was once an inhabited world. .... (page down to) ... The question of life Astrobiology Magazine (AM): You've suggested, in contrast to the conventional view, that Venus may have held onto its water for perhaps as long as 2 billion years. What are the implications for habitability? David Grinspoon (DG): For habitability, there are implications for Venus and there are implications for terrestrial planets in general. Venus almost certainly had liquid water when it was young. So the conditions for the origin of life, as conventionally defined, were satisfied there as much as on Earth and Mars. perhaps the fundies are on the wrong planet ... ? (nudge wink) Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Now we have three possible other places for life to have evolved (or co-evolved?) that can open a lot of interesting questions
Just so long as I don't have to do the field work on Venus ... we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Now we have three possible other places for life to have evolved Only three? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
heh.
so far ... venus, mars and europa ... plus earth of course. unless you are looking for intelligent life, in which case try seti for the nearest one ...
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Tony650 Member (Idle past 4054 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
Heh, I was going to mention Europa...you beat me.
Something else, though; what about Titan? Doesn't it have a nitrogen/methane atmosphere thick with hydrocarbons? Is it considered a contender?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 498 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
You just gave me an idea for a thread topic.
The Laminator We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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Gary Inactive Member |
If there once was life on Venus, it was so long ago that we might never know about it. If we do eventually drop rovers or some other probes on Venus again, it won't be for quite a long time. Mars is somewhat temperate compared to Venus, so the rovers that landed in January are still working. Anything we sent to Venus with present technology would stop working in a very short amount of time, so it just isn't worth bothering with at this time.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
quite right you are.
Mars is somewhat temperate compared to Venus, I think you get the understatement of the year award here. and we are not even discussing the Sulfuric acid problem ... like I said -- I wouldn't want to do the field work. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
as far as I know these ones are listed as possible due to the presence of water.
the hydrocarbons in a nitrogen/methane atmosphere would definitely be an alien brew. there would need to be energy available and a concentrating medium (one of the things water does) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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Tony650 Member (Idle past 4054 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
RAZD writes: as far as I know these ones are listed as possible due to the presence of water. Ah, of course.
RAZD writes: the hydrocarbons in a nitrogen/methane atmosphere would definitely be an alien brew. The hydrocarbons are what pricked my ears up.
RAZD writes: there would need to be energy available and a concentrating medium (one of the things water does) It doesn't have to be water, though, does it? Would methane not liquefy at temperatures that far out? Could it act as the medium? Or is there, perhaps, some property required that it doesn't have?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
the hydrocarbons in a nitrogen/methane atmosphere would definitely be an alien brew. One of the current problems is that we only have one sample of life right now. So it's pretty hard to say what general conditions are needed until we get a few more samples. One open question is whether we would be able to recognize life it was significantly different from the one sample we do have. We even have trouble finding the line between living and non-living within the forms that we do know about. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Liquid methane and ammonia have been talked about in science fiction for some time. The problem is to see how they can work similar to water or to envisage a different system -- the "we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand" problem.
The presence of hydrocarbons in outer space (detected at great distance even, so they were around when the solar system was forming) is now well known, more being added all the time. This means that they were probably accumulating on all the planets. I wouldn't rule it out, but they don't have the home team advantage. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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Tony650 Member (Idle past 4054 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
RAZD writes: The presence of hydrocarbons in outer space (detected at great distance even, so they were around when the solar system was forming) is now well known, more being added all the time. This means that they were probably accumulating on all the planets. Now this is interesting; if they accumulated on all the planets, is there even a remote possibility, perhaps, that the Jovian planets could potentially develop life? Just to be very clear, I don't think there is any life on the Jovian planets; I am speaking purely hypothetically. Anyway, they are essentially giant, fluidic globes, correct? So there would be no shortage of mediums for the hydrocarbons to flow around freely in. However, I'm uncertain as to what specific properties a concentrating medium must have. And to be honest, I'm not even 100% certain of the actual composition of the Jovian planets, themselves. I know they are "fluidic" in that they have no solid surface, but are they composed mostly of gas or liquid? Or perhaps it is more of a "grey" area? Perhaps there is no clearly defined line where the "gas" stops and the "liquid" begins? Let's take Jupiter, for example. Does Jupiter, in fact, have an "ocean-like" surface, above which its gaseous atmosphere sits? Or does its atmosphere simply start off very thin, at the highest altitudes, and gradually get denser as you go deeper, until finally, you are passing through dense liquid? In other words, if you were to fly into Jupiter and head straight for the core, would there be, at some point, a definite "splash" or just a gradual, increasing resistance to your course?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
ever try to find the bottom of a lake with deep silty bottom? I think it's quite possible that there is no real "horizon" between "atmosphere" and "crust\mantle" as the density could increase until distinquishing what was which is impossible - even if there is a core of elements similar to those on earth. The only way for there to be a discontinuity is for there to be either (1) a change in material (like here) or (2) a change in phase of the material, a sudden collapse of molecules into a new form not known here.
we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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