Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Faith
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 46 of 216 (138601)
08-31-2004 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
08-31-2004 4:07 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
First, it would take something bigger than Jupiter and a whole bunch closer than Jupiter to have any measurable effect on the earth's rotation.
REally? You mean an object the size of Texas traveling with enough kenetic energy wouldn't have an affect on the earths rotation if hit in the right spot?
So yes. I can say, even with my limited knowledge, that there is nothing out there close enough to be a threat to stop the rotation of the earth.
No you can't jar. You just don't know or understand the physics involved, or the possibilities.
Wrong. It did not come inside the moon's orbit. But even if it had hit the earth, it would be unlikely to end life. Afterall, we have been through that before. It might well end the human phase and leave the world to the next species, but it is unlikely to end life.
Correct and incorrect.
I corrected my distance, and if it ended human life, wouldn't that be enough? I never meant anything more than life as in our life.
Second, we would have had many months of warning if not years of warning before something like that happened. And it is not a given that we can do nothing about it. It is reason though to get some of the eggs out of the basket.
Not true. We only search for things that are in our orbital plane of the solar system. Thats all we are capable for right now. So an object could come from another solar system and blind side us. Also, there is no guarantees on our on going search that we would fins anything coming at us. Something could come from the other side of the sun, and we would not be able to see it coming.
So you tell me, what are the odds of us getting hit?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 08-31-2004 4:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 08-31-2004 7:14 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 53 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 7:36 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 47 of 216 (138602)
08-31-2004 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by happy_atheist
08-31-2004 5:46 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
Which proves.........you guessed it, nothing.
This is my point, since you can't prove anything, then it all requires an element of faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by happy_atheist, posted 08-31-2004 5:46 PM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 7:26 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 48 of 216 (138603)
08-31-2004 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by happy_atheist
08-31-2004 5:50 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
Tell me, think there is any truth to Murphy's law?
Just because the odds are a trillion to one, what are the odds that the one may happen this year?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by happy_atheist, posted 08-31-2004 5:50 PM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 7:29 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 49 of 216 (138606)
08-31-2004 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by riVeRraT
08-31-2004 7:02 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
REally? You mean an object the size of Texas traveling with enough kenetic energy wouldn't have an affect on the earths rotation if hit in the right spot?
Yup.
So an object could come from another solar system and blind side us.
Do you have any idea where the next solar system is?
But what do any of these things have to do the topic?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 7:02 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:05 AM jar has not replied

  
Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 216 (138609)
08-31-2004 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by riVeRraT
08-31-2004 6:54 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
Look. Do a google search on 'au in miles' and google will provide a number of 93 million miles.
Then do a search on 'nasa au' and you'll find that Nasa's website gives a number of 93 million miles.
I didn't say 100 times, I said 40, and I stand by that statement.
I don't think it was close enough to be a concern. I know that with the advent of accurate astrological equipment, people realize that there is a lot of things out there whirling around like mad. I do not think that we should be scared by this in any way. We do know that large objects can hit the earth, but it's not like this happens often.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 6:54 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:11 AM Melchior has replied
 Message 69 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:34 PM Melchior has not replied

  
happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 51 of 216 (138726)
09-01-2004 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by riVeRraT
08-31-2004 7:04 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
no faith needed at all because I don't say that the sun will definately rise (still speaking figuratively here! ). All I say is that it is much more likely to rise than not rise, and that statement is perfectly true. No faith whatsoever involved anyhwere in my reasoning, unless you think probability theory is faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 7:04 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:13 AM happy_atheist has replied
 Message 57 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:13 AM happy_atheist has not replied

  
happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 52 of 216 (138727)
09-01-2004 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by riVeRraT
08-31-2004 7:06 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
quote:
Tell me, think there is any truth to Murphy's law?
no, I don't believe there is any truth to murphys law. I just think we selectively remember when things go wrong more than when things go right. There is nothing memorable about a day when things go right for us, but if we have a particularly bad day and some things go wrong we'll be going on about it for ages.
quote:
Just because the odds are a trillion to one, what are the odds that the one may happen this year?
If the odds are a trillion to one then the odds of it happening this year are a trillion to one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 7:06 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:19 AM happy_atheist has replied

  
happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 53 of 216 (138728)
09-01-2004 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by riVeRraT
08-31-2004 7:02 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
quote:
quote:
First, it would take something bigger than Jupiter and a whole bunch closer than Jupiter to have any measurable effect on the earth's rotation.
REally? You mean an object the size of Texas traveling with enough kenetic energy wouldn't have an affect on the earths rotation if hit in the right spot?
quote:
So yes. I can say, even with my limited knowledge, that there is nothing out there close enough to be a threat to stop the rotation of the earth.
No you can't jar. You just don't know or understand the physics involved, or the possibilities.
Actually I think you're the one missunderstanding here. Jar is very clearly talking about the tidal effects of a large body on rotation. For example, the earth has slowed the moons rotation to such a degree that it is tidally locked with us (it only ever shows one face to us). Now Jar was saying that for something moving close to us to have ANY noticable effect on our rotation then it would have to be quite massive indeed. The sun is huge, and we're pretty close to it, yet it has no noticable effect on our rotation. It simply makes high tides slightly higher or slightly lower depending on it's alignment with the moon. Jupiter is huge too, but has no effect on us at all tidally. Something moving close to us could theoretically effect our rotation, but it would have to be huge to do anything noticable in the brief time it was near us. That kind of object would not sneak up on us. Therefore since a near miss is much more likely than a direct hit, it is certainly extremely unlikely that anything out there will alter our rotation (ignoring the moon, which is already slowing us down).
A direct hit would certainly not stop the rotation relative to the sun though, so it wouldn't stop the sun rising anyway

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 7:02 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:05 PM happy_atheist has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 54 of 216 (138734)
09-01-2004 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by jar
08-31-2004 7:14 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
REally? You mean an object the size of Texas traveling with enough kenetic energy wouldn't have an affect on the earths rotation if hit in the right spot?
Yup.
Well you are wrong.
But what do any of these things have to do the topic?
Because you have FAITH that none of these things will happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 08-31-2004 7:14 PM jar has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 55 of 216 (138735)
09-01-2004 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Melchior
08-31-2004 7:22 PM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
Listen according to the information you gave me, its not 40 times, you need to go have your work checked.
1 au is indeed 93 million miles.
0.10 AU =930,000 miles.
The Moon is 250,000 miles away, x40 =10 million.
Big difference between 930,000 and 10 million.
It's still just a stones throw away.
The other part is that it passed almost directly overhead. So even though it missed us vertically, it hit us horizontally, relativly speaking.
You didn't answer my question, just what are the odds? I will accept any number you tell me for purpose of this discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Melchior, posted 08-31-2004 7:22 PM Melchior has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Melchior, posted 09-01-2004 12:34 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 64 by jar, posted 09-01-2004 3:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 56 of 216 (138736)
09-01-2004 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by happy_atheist
09-01-2004 7:26 AM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
You base your faith on the odds, period.
I am not saying this is good or bad but it is true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 7:26 AM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 11:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 57 of 216 (138737)
09-01-2004 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by happy_atheist
09-01-2004 7:26 AM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
You base your faith on the odds, period.
I am not saying this is good or bad but it is true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 7:26 AM happy_atheist has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 58 of 216 (138740)
09-01-2004 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by happy_atheist
09-01-2004 7:29 AM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
no, I don't believe there is any truth to murphys law.
Please try to convince all the insurance company's of this nation that same thought, and maybe our insurance will go down.
If the odds are a trillion to one then the odds of it happening this year are a trillion to one.
That is wrong, if it happens this year, then the odds are one to one.
Just because we are ignorant about what goes into making up odds, doesn't mean that it is a trillion to one, or one to one.
But since we really don't know what would make these odds, then we put faith in what we believe are safe odds. Then we put hope that it won't happen to us, which is, by the way, blind faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 7:29 AM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 11:35 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 59 of 216 (138756)
09-01-2004 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by riVeRraT
08-31-2004 12:12 PM


quote:
So I can't see justifying believeing in something because it is more likely to produce a certain result more than another thing. Because if it has odds that the results will change, then it will change, no matter the odds. Thats my personal observation.
OK, Riverrat.
Go to the nearest highway overpass, and dive off head first.
The odds are very good, although not 100%, that you will hit the pavement, crush your skull, and die.
If "the results will change, no matter what the odds," then you must therefore believe that your odds of floating down to the ground unharmed are just the same as hitting the ground and dying.
What kind of silliness is that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 12:12 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by happy_atheist, posted 09-01-2004 11:37 AM nator has not replied
 Message 65 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 8:54 PM nator has replied

  
happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 60 of 216 (138779)
09-01-2004 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by riVeRraT
09-01-2004 9:13 AM


Re: Are there things outside those that can be tested?
but the whole point is that I don't have "faith" because I don't say that something is definately going to happen. I don't say "the sun is more likely to rise tomorrow than not rise tomorrow, therefore it definately will rise tomorrow". That would be faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:13 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by riVeRraT, posted 09-01-2004 9:00 PM happy_atheist has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024