Joshua's Long Day

I'm asking why the storyteller even bothered to mention that the moon "stood over Aijalon" when its presence there would be of no import to the fighting. I believe it to be because he subscribed to a primitive, fictitious cosmology. Do you know where Christian Answers, or Answers in Genesis, or any of those folks keep any of this "good evidence?" I've been in these debates for almost four years now, and have yet to see any. Not a bit: just assertions and falling back on a book that is assumed to be "true" despite any actual evidence.

In response to your question: God had the Bible written by men. God had it written as it happened, as fact. Joshua stated those exact words. It was not a "Storyteller." I still do not see the relevance of this question the effect on Joshua's long day. It makes no difference where the moon was, the sun illuminated the sky.I have just started to debate evolution and creationism. I stumbled across it last night when i found this site. I have not read the books of which you speak, but I am sure I will before I am done debating, and will get back to you on it after i have completed my reading.It has been fun debating, but I have to call it a night. Thanks for your courtesy. Until next time.Sincerely,
Servant of God

Hey all. I am new here but as a professional archaeologist who has studied ancient cultures his entire life I feel compelled to step in here and point out that Servant of God's source is pure bunk. First, the website he cites actually cites its own information as:
"T. W. Doane, Bible Myths and their Parallels in Other Religions, fourth ed. (New York: Charles P. Somerby, 1882), p. 91." That source is 122 years old! Now, that isn't going to make it worthless, but it does suggest that it is quite out of date. Much worse, though, is the fact that this is not a primary source for these apparent stories; it's just another pro-inerrant Bible book. Not what I would call reliable evidence.Now, I work in Mesoamerica and I can tell you there is no myth about an abnormally long day. Furthermore, in ancient Peru there was no writing system so records thousands of years aren't available. I can assure you with complete certainty that the Inca had NO historical information about ANYTHING that was even 2000 years old. You're being fed pure unadulterated and useless junk.The Christian writer here has resorted to not just half-truths but is absolutely flat out lying in places. There is no record in Herodotus of an abnormally long day being recorded by the Egyptians. I seriously question the rest of the assertions made on this website as well. Sadly, gullible Christians have cited this as support for their contention that Joshua's long day is verifiable history and you can find Doane cited on dozens of websites, none of them realizing the utter worthlessness of this source. This only goes to show the desperate lengths that some Christians will go to to prop up their pet hypotheses and how weak their critical thinking skills really are.As has already been pointed out, the story talks about the day being lengthened by God stopping the sun, demonstrating a terracentric worldview, which is demonstrably not reality. Why anyone would place any further credence in a bunch of old flat-earthers is beyond me. Anyway, just my personal gripe. Sorry for the tone of this note, I've just had it up to here with Christian deceipt and gullibility.This message has been edited by Khaemwaset, 09-07-2004 11:52 PM

Ifen,you wrote:"I look at it this way, the Bible is no more wrong than books such as The Bhagavad-Gita ... The Gita is full of important teachings about life even though that battle never took place in history."Actually, that battle in the Bhagavad Gita is supposed to have been a real battle, at least according to many Hindus."The Bible is not a history book or a science book. It's a book that teaches about a religion and how that religion accounted for the world as understood by the people of that time."No, the Bible does provide much historical information, especially in the Old Testament. Many people have claimed that the Jews invented history even. Books that contain purported history and science can be scientifically examined. Sadly, the Bible comes up lacking once tested in these areas.

Welcome Khaemwaset. Really looking forward to learning from you. Is there any chance you can tell us any more about examples of art styles that continued from around 4000 BC on into the period around 2000 BC? It would sure help over in This thread.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Welcome to EvC KhaemwasetGlad to see you jumping in.It is helpful for newcomers to become aquainted with our Forum Guidelines. Also, here is a post with some formating tips.Once again, welcome to our little corner of the world.

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Hello Khaemwaset,Let me join the others in saying that I hope you will not be a stranger here.P.S. to sad2kno: It takes the sun's light approximately 8 minutes to reach earth; not 8 hours.Amlodhi

Don't worry about it. My field is physics and biology. I don't know much about bible stuff, history, or geology. This is why you will almost never see me debate in one of these discussions. After someone gave the classic "goddunit" as an answer, I pretty much stopped responding, since I know math and physics not miracles. Two seperate philosophy/theology professors assured me that the so-called recurring theme of ultra long day among various cultures is a myth. The myth was cooked up by similar themes among myths in other cultures.For example, and I know this is off-topic, but I just want to give an analogy. Why do we find stories about a great flood among just about every culture in the world? Some might say that this is proof of Noah's flood. Others, such as myself, simply see it as a coincidence.Flood has always been a big deal to people's lives. In the old days, a flood in the local region might as well be percieved as the world's been flooded, since people didn't have a clue the world was much bigger than their back yards. Since flood's always been a big deal, you'd find these various versions of some kind of great flood and voila you have Noah's flood.Now, I am only human and I simply don't have time to do much research into this. No, I do not like fishing around the internet and claim that I've done proper research on the matter. However, I am certain that it is very easy to cook up a myth/mystery. All you have to do is leave out certain details, exaggerate on irrelavent things, and add some color to the story.Heck, I can probably cook up a myth that I have magic powers. If people were willing to die for Jim Jones, I don't see why I can't start a cult of my own. Idealistically, this is true. However, in reality if something is real it must stand up to the test. There's an old chinese saying: real gold ain't afraid of fire. This is why I tend not to get into one of these debates. I can give you mathematical formulas that prove the impossibility of such an event. However, I can't give you miraculous formulas because I don't know any.I'll tell you what, you get god to give some amputated people back their limbs and I'll start investigating further into the reality of miracles. According to my handy dandy Webster's New World Dictionary, fact is "a thing that has actually happened or that is really true; thing that has been or is... the state of things as they are; reality; actuality; truth... some ththing said to have ocrcurred or supposed to be true..."So, would you mind establishing the event as "fact" first before refering to it as "fact"?Oh yeah, light only takes about 8 minutes to get here from the sun, not 8 hours. I am also glad that you decided to jump in. I was hoping for some fresh meat... just joking. Welcome! I'm sure there are some here who would like to tear you to shreds. Be assured that I'm not one of them. All I want to do is grab your throa... I mean shake your hand.

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The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current. For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

I would like to know what the alleged Chinese long day is. Becuase as far as I am aware, most Chinese astronomical observations were burnt as state secrets during the Mongol conquest. Not all of them, certainly, and we have grave goods and so on, but far and away the vast majority.

Hey Khaemwaset, First of all, I have been courteous and respected your beliefs on this topic. I only ask that you do the same for me.Now, in response to your post: How so? Are you saying that simply because it is old, well here are a list of much newer ones for you:
http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/cr11.htm
Revolution Against Evolution – A Revolution of the Love of God I have tons of sites and books telling me that nations all over the world have documented this occurrence when it happened, (listed above and below) and you come here telling me that YOU say there is no myth about a long-day without any back-up research? Now I respect the fact that you are an archaeologist, but still, just because YOU say something doesn't make it fact. I beg to differ, please read the following link VERY closely: http://www.mbowden.surf3.net/joshld.htm Please notice on the fourth paragraph. Point B. Egypt. I quote: "The Greek historian Herodotus recorded that when he visited Egypt, the priests there showed him an ancient manuscript that told the story of a day that lasted twice as long as a normal day." Here is the record in Herodotus and an abnormally long day being recorded by the Egyptians, which you claim did not exist. This site also explains every civilization that documented this occurrence. This includes the Mexican Indians, the people of PERU, the Mayans of Guatemala, all of these people that you say never documented this occurrence. Did you ever consider oral history, since you guys are always referring to it as a "Folktale"? Lastly, I really don’t appreciate you stereotyping Christians by calling us all "gullible" because your side is not exactly blameless. I’m sure you have heard of the hoax that had those brilliant scientists go on for years about until someone finally was struck with the thought "oh maybe we should check and see if it's real" I’m talking about the hoax involving the human skull with an ape's jaw altered to satisfy carbon dating and instantly named hominid by gullible evolutionists. That was EXTREMELY stereotypical. You call us gullible, take a look at this: http://unmuseum.mus.pa.us/piltdown.htm This was believed to be true by evolutionists for 45 years, until finally someone decided to test it and found out that someone had made the whole thing up........an ape's jaw huh? Pretty gullible.....I have been really busy lately and will not be able to spare any more time for these debates, but on breaks, I will try to come back and do some more debating. I apologize, Khaemwaset, if this post seemed a little harsh. It just really infuriates me when people put Christianity down for the littlest things that they themselves are also guilty for.......example........gullibility. Again, I am sorry, but if you post, I might not get back to it for a few weeks. Thanks for the fun of debating

Uh.... check your sources, SoG. Piltdown Man was assembled and found in 1912. Carbon dating was invented about 1947. I don't think the jaw was altered to fool Dr Libby - he was four years old when the fraud was perpetrated.

off topic. But some corrections to your falsehoods.1. From an early point the Piltdown skull was suspected to a fake, from the website you posted: 2. Radiocarbon dating wasn't invented until 1947 (Accelerator Mass Spectrometry Laboratory), so the Piltdown skull couldn't have been altered to defeat a dating method that wasn't in existence at the time. The orangutan jaw was modern and the human skull was only 600 years old, they had been altered to look ancient. If radiocarbon dating had existed in 1911, a test wof the skull would have exposed it as a forgery.

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*not an actual doctor

Given the following posts regarding the advent of C-14 dating in 1947 and the "discover" of Piltdown decades earlier I'd say that "gullible" is precisely the right word for at least one Christian. :-) We get a lot of amusement from the gullibility but this one is one of the better ones.Of course, generalizing isn't a good idea nor is it fair to the majority of Christians that know full well how fraudulant the creationist movement tends to be. It isn't the majority of Christians that are "gullible" it is a large fraction of a particular cult within Christianity.Now let's get back to the topic at hand shall we.It seems that Fernand Crombette from one of your links is associated but I haven't had time to check it out with claims that the universe and the solar system is geocentric! Do you also support this claim? (If that is what is actually being claimed. I do need to read in more detail.)This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 09-08-2004 09:17 PM

Can you tell us where in Herodotus this story is to be found ?Since Herodotus is available on the web it can easily be checked and found.None of your sources seem to give a reference which is very poor scholarship.

However, does Herodotus actually say this? I've just word-searched a translation of the Histories found over here: Herodotus' Inquiries...and the best I can find is this:

quote:

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Then in that time on four occasions they said that the sun rose up out of its customary dwelling; that where now it sinks down, thence twice it rose up rather and from where now it rises up, there twice it sank down, and nothing of what’s all over Egypt in those days became another in kind, neither what was produced for them from the earth nor what from the river, neither illnesses and their effects nor matters concerning death.

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This is a reversal, not an immobility, of the sun. The site you refer to certainly makes the claim that Herodotus said this, but does not quote him nor give a reference. Did Herodotus say it at all?This message has been edited by contracycle, 09-09-2004 05:28 AM