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Author | Topic: New Book: Kerry ‘Unfit for Command’ | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
"whatever" is once again intentionally playing fast and lost with the facts. This dishonesty is not becoming in anyone, least of all someone who claims to live by a moral code based on his religion. This is not stupidity and it is not ignorance, and that only leaves maliciousness and insanity.
whatever writes: ... GWB was willing to be called to active duty when he signed up for inactive reserve after he recieved his honorable discharge ... In point of fact there are now two records of when GWB had to sign an acknowledgement that he had not fulfilled his service requirements and that he was aware that continuing to do so would result in his being activated. These were not voluntary on his part, but required in lieu of being sent immediately. The man was being disciplined for being, at best,inadequate. Reading the facts behind the bravado shows that shrub was very underqualified for the special attention that he received and that he had to continue to pull strings not just to get in the guard but to keep from being sent to vietnam when he couldn’t find the time to fulfill the all expenses paid training provided by this government according to his contract. Continuing to portray the fact incorrectly is blatant lying and misrepresentation, and if this truly is representative of the 46% of voters that seem to favor this man, then I truly fear for this country. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
Razd, We can now only hope that Mr. Kerry will now release all his records, to be fair to GWB, but given Kerrys past, I suspect this is not something he will do, as in Oliver Norths letter to Kerry, Kerrys beef is not with GWB or Bush's Record, but with his betrayal of the 2.5 million Vets serving this country.
P.S. The QuickBoat Vets have declared that My. Kerry is not to be trusted, and we all know what the bible says about men like Mr. Kerry, that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways, KJV quote, and how aptly this fits Mr. Kerry, its that Kerry is (double minded)says one thing & vote for the other side, etc..., Kerry's double talk, has given him the chant flip flop, is he for or against the war, is he for or against abortion, is he for or against gay marriage, is he for or against taxing the middle class, is he a hero or a traitor, says he will release all his medical records then reneges, confirming the Vets testimony that Kerry is not to be trusted with what he says, cause he turned on them, they were there, and they simply requested Mr. Kerry release his complete military records, and he simply refuses, GWB released his records but Kerry flipped said he would release all his records, then reneged, John O'Neil's Book: Kerry Unfit to Command, the topic was Kerry, is he fit to command, its not anyone but Bush, both were discharged honorably, by their superiors, GWB was available to be called into active service, but the inactive reserves were not called up, Kerry on the other hand made war with our military, lying that he was in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, it was in the Oliver North letter, telling Kerry we were there, and your a liar, etc...There is a reason likely why the Vets wants his complete records, and Kerry likely knows too, or else he'd release his complete naval military, medical records, etc... We want to know too, Mr. Kerry needs to release his complete records, its the right thing to do, etc... This message has been edited by whatever, 09-08-2004 10:22 PM This message has been edited by whatever, 09-08-2004 10:51 PM
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
THIS
GWB was willing to be called to active duty when he signed up for inactive reserve after he recieved his honorable discharge IS A LIE. That is NOT what the document(s) (two now known) say. He couldn't have flown if he'd wanted to for his status as an active pilot was revoked FOR FAILURE TO MEET ANG STANDARDS. Not just the medical. And this 200+ Vets just gives me the most ridiculous image: Here's Kerry on his boat with his crew (total 5) that back up KerryHis buddy Chicago columnist with his crew (another 5) that back up Kery Three other boats on a mission (another 15) that have a grudge Where are the rest of those 200 guys? running along the shore shouting and waving? 200-15 = 185 guys milling around somewhere in order to have a clue about what is going on. Ludicrous doesn't begin to describe how ridiculous this is. MEANWHILE ... not one person can say what "Where's W Waldo" did to fulfull his requirements ... not only do they not remember him being "there" they remember him NOT being "there" because his arrival was anticipated. After May 1972 there is not one vet of the ANG that remembers "Where's W Waldo" -- NOT ONE. Now how you can complete your service requirements after being suspended for failure to meet ANG requirements for training and the yearly medical, without a single person knowing what you did IN THE MILITARY is sure a mystery to me. THAT IS NOT JUST AN OVERSIGHT. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
Razd, Heard on television news today that the Denver reserve knew where GWB was and that GWB was willing to serve if the inactive reserves were called upon(seems he did become a paper pusher as did Kerry), however, you must remember that Kerry after discharged from the military, became a war protester calling our own Vets butchers, now who do you really feel is better qualified to lead our military, its obvious that Kerry by lying about the War, is simply unfit for command, etc..
P.S. Did you read the Oliver North letter to Kerry, if you did, how can you in good faith vote for the man, to lead those that believe Kerry is a traitor, to our own military, etc...General Franks never contested his record in Vietnam, but his record after the military, as to why he is not fit to command, etc... razd, I applaud however your zeal, your passion, however misguided it maybe, etc... This message has been edited by whatever, 09-08-2004 10:44 PM
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 760 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Oliver Norths letter
Hmmm. Ol' Ollie. A gun-running, cocaine-smuggling Patriot (TM) propping up a fascist bannana republic government that looked real good testifying. The wimmen loved that handsome rascal. Yeah. Reliability at its best.
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I know that reading through that much documentation and evidence is kind of a chore, but that's all part of being informed about the issues.
First of all, you did not address my point about the poll in which the majority of US citizens believed that the nationality of the WTC terrorist bombers were Iraqi, not Saudi, because the Bush Administration repeatedly made the connection between 9/11 and invading Iraq in speeches and in the media in the run up to the war. Where do you think the public got that idea? quote: Actually, the group most likely to hold the misconception that the people who flew the planes into the TWC were Iraqi, not Saudi,were Fox news viewers, which I very much doubt are mostly liberals. In fact, I would say that Fox News viewers are mostly conservative, and very conservative at that, wouldn't you? The group least likely to think that the bonbers were Iraqi were those who listened to NPR, typically listened to by democrats, intellectuals and liberals.
quote: No, which shows how skilled at manipulation they are. The news media, particularly Fox news, actually completely shirked their duty to be bullshit detectors and never raised the alarm bells about there being no connection between Al Quaida and Iraq. Bush and Co. repeatedly talked about 9/11 and Iraq in the same breath. They did this over and over again, and a cheerleader news media and their own gullibility led them down the garden path. Why, when the poll came out, didn't Bush put out a statement reminding everyone that almost all of the 19 bombers were Saudi, not Iraqi.
quote: Why not? He, along with Fox news, is the source of the misinformation.
Second of all, I also showed you that he was informed by the international weapons experts that there was no evidence of Iraq having WMD. That makes them liars. quote: No, of course not. He should have also listened to Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice and Richard Clarke, and others, all of whom were putting out reports directly before 9/11 which said that Iraq was not a threat to us at all and had been effectively defanged by the first Gulf war and the sanctions. All of a sudden, right after 9/11, Iraq became a major focus of the "war on terror", when just months before they were not considered dangerous to us at all?
quote: Strawman. You are inventing an argument that I never made.
At the very least, Bush and his staff were grossly incompetant and were engaging in active self-delusion for ignoring Blix and taking as truthful Chalabi, now shown to be a corrupt con man, a single obviously forged document stating that Iraq was trying to secure enriched uranium, and several Iraqi defectors. quote: I will admit that this is troubling for me regarding Kerry, but I also understand that the political climate in the country at that time made it virtually impossible to criticize anything Bush and Co. did, because doing so was immediately branded as "unpatriotic" or "unamerican" Do you admit that Bush and co. were grossly incompetant and self deluded, then?
I can't help but notice that you did not comment upon the 9/11 commission saying that there is no evidence that Iraq and Al Qaida were connected. quote: The commission is bipartisan.
quote: Um, I cut and pasted from direct quotes from the commission report. Did you read the link?
quote: ...well, right. What about that, Change?
quote: OK, so are you saying then that we can and should invade and overthrow the government of and occupy any and every country who's leadership ever meets with any group which might sometime in the future might possibly finance or sponsor any terrorist attack in the US? How insane is that? There are probably many dozens of countries right now, or more, that one could say that about. Why did we pick Iraq? Oil, maybe?
There is also the former Bush speech writer, Frum, who says that the intent for the Bush administration to attack Iraq was in place long before 9/11. quote: Um, Frum, a conservative Republican, freely admits that he was given the task to "justify a war in Iraq". It wasn't a contingency plan, it was an effore to justify, to SELL a war on Iraq.
quote: Really? Where has he been discredited? I'd love to see your evidence. You know, that stuff that you are supposed to present to support your assertions, like I have been doing and you have not been doing?
What evidence do you have to show that much or any effort to find bin Laden is currently being undertaken. quote: Right, which is why we should have put all of our effort into Afghanistan, joined with 30 other countries, instead of pulling troops away into Iraq.
quote: Are you saying that the most advanced, most powerful military in the world, combined with special forces units from 30 other countries, all bent upon finding Bin Laden, probably couldn't do it? I have confidence that they could have done it, and very nearly the entire world would have helped us do it. After all, Clinton was able to capture and bring to trial the original WTC bombers and they are in prison as we speak. But no, bush wanted to invade Iraq, so we LET BIN LADEN GO.
quote: I think it would look best of all to capture him, extradite him to a federal court in the US, convict and imprison him for the rest of his life in the United States of America, the country he hates the most in the world. Why do you think he's less dangerous in hiding, anyway? Al Qaida continues to be active.
THEN WHY AREN't WE CONCENTRATING ON AL QAIDA? quote: No, we aren't. We are concentrating on Iraq, not Afghanistan.
quote: No, we really can't. Didn't you read what I pasted from the article?: Much of the timing now is driven by the weather: as winter snows melt, troops can navigate in the high mountain passes and trails where many Qaeda and Taliban members are believed to be hiding. When that moment arrived last year, many of the forces and American intelligence operatives now engaged in Afghanistan were tied up in Iraq. We continue to lose opportunities to get Bin Laden because key operatives and forces were in IRAQ, not Afghanistan.
quote: No, of course not, but there are lots of countries which do this, not only Iraq. Why didn't we invade Pakistan, because we know that they actually DID furnish weapons to terrorists, was sympathetic to Al Qaida, and Pakistan has nuclear weapons?
Do you think the United States government should have the right to arrest you, detain you indefinitely without making any charges, notifying your family, lawyer, or the media, and anyone subpoenad in connection with your case is subject to prison time if they complain to congress about any abuses they suffer at the hands of law enforcement? Did you know that the Justice Department as requested that their biggest convictions, to date, connected to the "war on terror", be overturned, because new evidence has come to light which shows these people to be innocent of the charges? quote: You have not demonstrated that the risk of another terrorist attack is very great, though. Bush and Co. want you to constantly be afraid, but why don't they ever tell us what the threat is? That's because the more afraid the populace is, the greater chance they will be able to slip their facist police-state agenda under outr nose.
We're free, except if we are made to "disappear", taken away by the government with no due-process whatsoever? quote: Why do you want to know? Why is that relevant?
Why are we wasting billions of dollars, killing tens of thousands of people, in a war that is only good for oilmen and anti-American extremist recriters? quote: You mean like Saudi Arabia?
quote: Like the US, funding the Taliban and funding Saddam Hussein? You do realize that George Bush hosted the Taliban as guests when he was Govorner of Texas, and when he became president he began sending the Taliban federal aid money, don't you? We certainly knew that the Taliban was the most horribly oppressive fundamentalist Muslim government in the world, and that the Taliban had close ties with Bin Laden and Al Qaida, who we had long ago identified as a major terrorist threat to the US and had attacked us on our own soil in the first WTC bombing, but Bush was sending them foreign aid money. Bin Ladin must have been laughing his ass off when the towers fell. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 09-08-2004 11:01 PM
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
A person who subverted the actions of the United States Congress in a specific mandate.
WOW am I impressed with his credentials!!! Fits right in with the Bush crowd (all those ones convicted of certain misdoings under the first Bushy? Poindexter? care to go down the list? Crooks hang together I guess. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
measures up to whatevers standards.
heh.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
P.S. Did you read the Oliver North letter to Kerry, Ollie North. A convicted liar who has publicly admitted lying to congress. What a scumbag. Why would anyone believe anything the liar says any more than they would believe a liar like Chuck Colson. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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AdminAsgara Administrator (Idle past 2328 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
I know the Moose has called for closing statements. I think one more post by the major participants and that will be that. We are over 600 now and time to close.
AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com |
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Let's not forget Neil and Jeb Bush, both of whom were involved in the Sabings and Loan scandal, the largest taxpayer bailout of industry in history to the tune of $1.4 TRILLION, brought to you by the deregulation of the Reagan/Bush era: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/bush_family_and_the_s.htm
Jeb Bush defaulted on a $4.56 million loan from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida. After federal regulators closed the S&L, the office building that Jeb used the $4.56 million to finance was reappraised by the regulators at $500,000, which Bush and his partners paid. The taxpayers had to pay back the remaining 4 million plus dollars.
Neil Bush was the most widely targeted member of the Bush family by the press in the S&L scandal. Neil became director of Silverado Savings and Loan at the age of 30 in 1985. Three years later the institution was belly up at a cost of $1.6 billion to tax payers to bail out. The basic actions of Neil Bush in the S&L scandal are as follows: Neil received a $100,000 "loan" from Ken Good, of Good International, with no obligation to pay any of the money back. Good was a large shareholder in JNB Explorations, Neil Bush's oil-exploration company. Neil failed to disclose this conflict-of-interest when loans were given to Good from Silverado, because the money was to be used in joint venture with his own JNB. This was in essence giving himself a loan from Silverado through a third party. Neil then helped Silverado S&L approve Good International for a $900,000 line of credit. Good defaulted on a total $32 million in loans from Silverado. During this time Neil Bush did not disclose that $3 million of the $32 million that Good was defaulting on was actually for investment in JNB, his own company. Good subsequently raised Bush's JNB salary from $75,000 to $125,000 and granted him a $22,500 bonus. Neil Bush maintained that he did not see how this constituted a conflict of interest. Neil approved $106 million in Silverado loans to another JNB investor, Bill Walters. Neil also never formally disclosed his relationship with Walters and Walters also defaulted on his loans, all $106 million of them. Neil Bush was charged with criminal wrongdoing in the case and ended up paying $50,000 to settle out of court. The chief of Silverado S&L was sentenced to 3.5 years in jail for pleading guilty to $8.7 million in theft. (Keep in mind that you can get more jail time for holding up a gas station for $50.) Today Neil Bush is working on closing a deal in Florida, where his brother Jeb is governor, to sell a software package to schools with his startup company Ignite.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
600+ messages, any more and the thing might implode.
Adminnemooseus Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to Change in Moderation? or Thread Reopen Requests |
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