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Author Topic:   Giant People in the bible?
Rei
Member (Idle past 7012 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 91 of 352 (141974)
09-13-2004 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by John Williams
09-13-2004 3:00 AM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
Yeah, but:
1) This clearly isn't part of an oil company's dig, since the ground around it hasn't been dug into (see the live, growing plants?). One could, of course, claim that they just happened to see bones sticking up. Not bloody likely, but it's a valid excuse.
2) What is shading the man, and why isn't that reflected in the rest of the scene?
3) Why hasn't any archaeological association reported on it in a journal? Is it some sort of conspiratorial coverup?

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 3:00 AM John Williams has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 92 of 352 (141975)
09-13-2004 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by John Williams
09-13-2004 2:46 AM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
I have studied it for a couple hours using negatives to see if there is any sign of photoshop manipulation and I haven't really seen any.
There are lots of ways to do a hoax without manipulating a photograph. Like the giant in a box this could involve carved stone or other material.
That website is strictly apologists playing to the credulous. They were claiming:
Secular Scientists Discover Light Speed Has Changed
(8/15/2001) In what is the final death knell of the hypothesis of an ancient Universe, secular scientists have discovered that the speed of light -- which evolutionists have always maintained to be a constant -- has changed over time. Creation Science has long predicted that light speed would have varied, accounting for our ability to see objects more than ten thousand "light years" away even though the Universe is less than ten thousand years old. This new study provides stunning confirmation of this prediction, strengthening the scientific case for the correct Genesis model of Cosmology.
But this is just total hype.
"What we've seen is that the structure of these atoms must be very slightly different, just so slightly, that the frequency of light that's involved in bumping the electrons from one orbit to the next is just a little bit different."
This implies that something in the early universe behaved differently. Because the speed of light is one factor in the fine structure constant equation, it might be it that has changed over time, Churchill said. Or it could be that unknown properties of the early universe forced atoms and electrons to behave in ways researchers don't understand.
The guy who runs that site appears to be a sincere Christian YEC, but willing to seize and misrepresent any little thing to promote his cause. He uses no discrimination at all. I find his site a total waste of time, it's only use is to mislead people.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 2:46 AM John Williams has replied

Replies to this message:
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John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 93 of 352 (141982)
09-13-2004 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by lfen
09-13-2004 3:43 AM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
Thank you guys for giving your comments.
I think that Perhaps the camera man was shading the picture of the guy doing the excavation.But also, we have to take into account the man doing the digging in the rib section has very dark skin.
Supposedly, Saudi police took over the location of the find.
As for it being carved. Yes, quite Possible, but not very likely.
That would be a very intricate carving. I mean, look at the bones and teeth and all, they look so real.
But I do believe that if this is a hoax, it is one of the most convincing hoaxes I have ever seen.
Again, thanks for giving me your feedback.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by lfen, posted 09-13-2004 3:43 AM lfen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by jar, posted 09-13-2004 11:36 AM John Williams has replied
 Message 97 by Rei, posted 09-13-2004 1:44 PM John Williams has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 94 of 352 (142038)
09-13-2004 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by John Williams
09-13-2004 5:58 AM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
The direction of lighting on the person is different than that on the skull.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 5:58 AM John Williams has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 12:36 PM jar has replied

  
John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 95 of 352 (142048)
09-13-2004 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by jar
09-13-2004 11:36 AM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
Also, look at how close to the surface the skeleton is.
How recent does it look to you? If it had been lying that close to the surface for thousands of years without being disturbed that would be a miracle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by jar, posted 09-13-2004 11:36 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 09-13-2004 12:43 PM John Williams has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 96 of 352 (142050)
09-13-2004 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by John Williams
09-13-2004 12:36 PM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
It could well have been protected under even a few inches of soil that were just recently disturbed so the condition doesn't bother me much. The lighting on the objects though is an issue and leads me to conclude that it is faked. It may be a composite from negatives or multiple exposure and not photoshoped (we tend to forget the old tried and true ways of faking a picture), but it is faked.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 12:36 PM John Williams has not replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7012 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 97 of 352 (142062)
09-13-2004 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by John Williams
09-13-2004 5:58 AM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
> one of the most convincing hoaxes
... you haven't spent very long on Worth1000.com, have you? It's a fun site, you should go there some time.
Dark shapes like that oddly-fitting person are easy to edit in - there's some "glow" along the edges, which *could* be natural light effects, or just as easily could be blur-addition to smooth borderlines. Besides, any decent artist could make a picture like this *without photoediting* given paper mache, chickenwire/foam, etc.
> Supposedly, the Saudi police took over the location
Yeah.... the Saudis, who are constantly trying to promote their "religious credentials" to their public, are trying to hide evidence of their holy books being right? Suuuure....
Seriously, are archaeologists expected to be just sitting by and not protesting? At all? Police don't "take possession of archaeological sites" and hide them from peer review, even in Saudi Arabia; and if they did, there would be huge protests. Look at what happened when the taliban started blowing up Buddha statues in Afghanistan! The archaeological world was having fits. And here, we supposedly have something never before seen, and you're assuming that archaeologists are going "Nah, I don't care."?
All this site did (have you read the sort of pseudoscience this site spits out?) was replace one bogus picture with another. Where is a single *credible* site reporting on this? Where are archaeologists mentioning this at all (positive or negative)? Where is *any* correlating evidence?
I should make a picture of a box of liquid with bubbles in it and some pipes hooked up to it, and post an article on my website about my new Cold Fusion discovery. It'd be just as credible.

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 5:58 AM John Williams has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 9:19 PM Rei has not replied

  
John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 98 of 352 (142183)
09-13-2004 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Rei
09-13-2004 1:44 PM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
Perhaps you guys could explain a little more about the lighting problem? The guy digging has dark skin. When I use the color enhancing or lighten the picture using my image viewer, It simply shows that he has dark brown skin.
try adjusting the brightness on your computer.
By the way, I have been to Worth1000.com, I am registered there. And I haven't seen any skeleton hoax that even came close to being this realistic looking. I'm not saying it's impossible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Rei, posted 09-13-2004 1:44 PM Rei has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 09-13-2004 9:27 PM John Williams has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 99 of 352 (142189)
09-13-2004 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by John Williams
09-13-2004 9:19 PM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
Perhaps you guys could explain a little more about the lighting problem?
Sure. The light source on the skull is from the upper left. Look at the shadow below the chin and highlights on the forehead. The light on the man is coming from the upper right. Look at the high lights on his back and the shadow in front of him. Unless it was taken under two suns, didn't happen.
Fraud and not even a good one.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 9:19 PM John Williams has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 10:12 PM jar has replied

  
John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 100 of 352 (142209)
09-13-2004 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
09-13-2004 9:27 PM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
Ok, I see what you mean.
Thanks for explaining. I can't say I agree with you about it, but I see the entire light source as coming from above, It is not very accurate to pinpoint it as coming from just one direction. The paint brush and plastic bag are illuminated aswell. Clearly this was mid-day or afternoon when the sun was shining overhead.
Also, look at the dirt that fell into the eye socket of the skull, and there are footprints next to the brush and bag.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 09-13-2004 9:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 09-13-2004 10:19 PM John Williams has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 101 of 352 (142216)
09-13-2004 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by John Williams
09-13-2004 10:12 PM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
If the sun was overhead you would not get the shadow under the chin and only on one side. In addition, the light is on the mans right rear sholder and not on the top of his head.
Faked and poorly done.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 10:12 PM John Williams has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 10:33 PM jar has not replied

  
John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 102 of 352 (142230)
09-13-2004 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
09-13-2004 10:19 PM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
I wouldn't say poorly done. LOL
I mean,I'm still convinced it might be real. BTW, The sun is shining on his head.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 09-13-2004 10:19 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
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John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 103 of 352 (142789)
09-16-2004 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by John Williams
09-13-2004 10:33 PM


Re: Giant human unearthed in Saudi Arabia?
I take that all back.
I must be a sucker if I believe in that.
The shadows are inconsistent with eachother.
Plus, what makes it obviously a hoax is the fact that the website the article is from is a parody website.
I did some google searches, and apperantly there is no "Dr Richard Paley" and neither is there a "Fellowship University" of which he claims to be a teacher. It's all one big elaborate hoax.
Quite funny too, considering the fact that I actually was defending the giant skeleton photo for a while.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by John Williams, posted 09-13-2004 10:33 PM John Williams has not replied

  
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 4374 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 104 of 352 (142805)
09-16-2004 5:38 PM


Assuming most of you are adults here...
Why would anyone give this sort of claim more than a second of notice? I mean really, most people on here have lived 2,3,4 or 5 decades in the real world. Do we not have our crazy bullshit filters in place to separate the likely from the plausible from the 'not even if Hell did freeze over'?

  
Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5190 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 105 of 352 (143376)
09-20-2004 4:28 PM


Very good find John Williams.
I just wonder how much longer people are going to try and find ways to make this stuff look like 'fakes'. As these things are revealed to the world more and more as we approach the end times, atheists will have less and less excuse. I feel saddened however that you recanted your stanced regarding this find. I've been investigating this myself, and am convinced that it is most likely genuine. Remember, people called Ron Wyatt a "fraud" too, but the facts are now being unraveled to the world that his discoveries weren't so "hoaxy" afterall.
I wonder if Jar even read the article about what evolutionists tried to do to cover up this find: (we should ALWAYS post the full article, because people have the tendency to be lazy and read for themselves when it is just a link)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Arabian Giant Skeleton Update: Hoax Warning And New Developments
8/2/2004 Since posting the previous story regarding the giant human skeletal remains found in Saudi Arabia, I have received a number of e-mails. From what people were saying, it at first appeared that the story might actually be a hoax, as the picture being circulated with it (see the Muslim newspaper article I previously linked to) turned out to have been doctored by a notorious Internet prank organization. I was, of course, skeptical of that photo from the beginning: the skeleton depicted in it would have belonged to a man at least 100 feet tall, which is clearly preposterous and not supported by Scripture. (Muslims are, unfortunately, susceptible to this sort of tomfoolery since they rely on the Koran, which contains much incorrect information poorly cribbed from God's true Word: the Bible).
However, I continued to investigate this issue, calling on contacts in the Middle East to see if they knew anything about the story that the doctored photo was attached to, which was short on actual details, saying only that the bones were found "recently". Last month my investigation turned up evidence that an ARAMCO geological team had indeed uncovered something in southeast SA in the summer of 2000 which resulted in a contingent of the Saudi police (not the military as previously reported) taking over the site. A missionary in Saudi Arabia (who insists on anonymity due to the extreme anti-Christian persecution going on in that nation) has told me that it is well known among foreign oil workers whom he is in contact with that some sort of human remains were discovered in the desert. The workers' wild speculation on what these remains were ranges from angel fossils to the bones of Mohammed, but the most common claim is that they were giant human bones. Apparently, the rumor is that Saudi religious officials were concerned that the discovery could somehow contradict part of the Koran, thereby helping to propagate Christianity, so they sent in the Mutawwa'in, their notorious religious police, to silence the matter. Although this last part is almost certainly true, I'm of the opinion that the geological branch of the oil industry -- which is infested with Evolutionists dedicated to keeping careful watch over who has access to their secret knowledge that the Earth is really much younger than they publicly claim it to be -- was also involved and somehow manipulated the Saudis into covering up the findings.
Last week, as I was preparing to write an update on these developments, I received an e-mail from a video producer in Australia doing a documentary on the search for Noah's Ark (she's also, amusingly, a fellow nemesis of Dr. Dawkins, having managed to trap that slippery weasel on camera unable to answer a question about how new information supposedly "evolves"), who wanted to know more about the McGivern expedition and incidentally if there were any more photos of the giant skeleton. I warned her of what I had discovered about the photo being doctored and not of the actual skeletal remains, but later it occurred to me that there may actually be photos, since surely a finding like this would be documented, even by those who wish to bury it. I decided to contact the missionary and see if he heard of anything about photos being taken at the fossil site prior to the arrival of the police. He said that he had heard there were photos taken, but that the police had confiscated them all, however he would ask around and see if anyone knew any more.
Then, just this morning, I received an e-mail from a person in the Saudi oil industry who, understandably, wishes to remain nameless. He told me that he was working as a technician (not a geologist) with the team that found the skeleton and corroborated much of the rumors about the incident. The skeleton was indeed of a giant human and there was a police cover up. He then related that, knowing the importance of what he was witnessing, he managed to surreptitiously copy one of the photos taken at the excavation site from a digicam to his laptop just before the police came and took all the cameras. He has recently converted to Christianity, thanks to our mutual missionary friend, and is fearful of the Mutawwa'in, but wants the world to see the truth of what was found in the desert, and so he attached the photo from that fateful day:
As you can see, the skeleton in this photo is of a more reasonable size -- I estimate he or she stood between 15 and 20 feet tall -- and in line with what we would expect from Biblical research. The weathering on it is consistent with the technician's description that the skull was originally found partially uncovered by the winds, and the look of horror on its face is consistent with sudden burial by the Flood combined with realization of one's own wickedness. (I do not know who the person doing the excavating is, but I suspect he works for ARAMCO. However, it is probably best not to dig into his identity since it may put him or his family in jeopardy.)
I now believe that the doctored photo was purposely attached to the story and spread through e-mail by Evolutionists as a type of agitprop designed to make Biblical science look bad when the photo was eventually revealed to be a hoax. (Hoaxes like this involving pastiches are a common M.O. for Evolutionists; see Piltdown Man, Onyate Man, Nebraska Man, Archaeoraptor, and "Lucy", to name just a few.) Perhaps they knew that eventually this discovery would get out and they wished to poison the well with doubt about the story's authenticity. But thanks to brave Christians working under the threat of a Wahabi-Evolutionist axis of lies, the truth has finally come out.
Source: http://objective.jesussave.us/creationnews.html
-------------------------------------------------------
Remember the principle: You are INNOCENT until proven guilty. This is what evolutionists do not want to do, and this is exactly how Ifen, Jar, and Rei are behaving. I'm sick and tired of hearing all this foolishness "it could be this"..."it could be that"..."there is something wrong with this"..and "there is something wrong with that"...
You sound so much like children--not like honest seekers for truth. Such a shame.
The first photo was definitely a hoax, but why would the second one be a hoax too? It is much more realistic. Hopefully, one day we will get out those giants buried in the cave of En-Gedi.
If a mass giant burial is one day officially revealed to the world, I just wonder what evolutionists will do then. Will they suddenly come up with all sorts of new explanations to try and state that there were giants in the process of evolution? I wonder how they will attempt to fit these finds with their garbled evolutionary theories. ROFL.
This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 09-20-2004 03:34 PM

~Lysimachus

Replies to this message:
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