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Author | Topic: Time factor in self assembly calculations? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: But that doesn't mean all the conditions are right for abiogenisis. You are lacking in volume of soup. You are lacking a power supply. And you are lacking the right chemistry as well, as conditions today are much different that 4 billion years ago. ------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Not really a statement of belief.... just chemistry. You've got to have the right conditions for a reaction to occur. Not all reactions are reversable.... blah... blah ..... that sort of thing. Unfortunately the data needed to duplicate those conditions doesn't exist, and might never exist; but I prefer uncertainty to false certainty. If you can duplicate the appropriate conditions and the experiment still doesn't work, then talk to me about belief. Right now, the only belief I've got is that there is an answer somewhere. ------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I don't get it. Of course I'm free to choose, but that isn't why I debate here. I debate because it forces me to think and the learn. ------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I agree about interchanging the words 'observe' and 'exist' The problem I see is that without observation there is no evidence, no common ground. Anything can be postulated as existing and no one can prove the postulate true or false, so long as it cannot be observed. It is a fundamental philosophical problem. Belief in a very real sense boils down to evidence-- ie observable data-- or no evidence. Science deals with what we can know, not what we can't. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Science cannot infer?
quote: It is hard to believe that a culture would have no origin myth. Anyone know the name of this tribe? ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: You are also assuming pure chance, and such isn't the case. These reaction take place within a larger system. That system will skew the results. The chemical, gravitational, radioactive environment has to be taken into account or the probability calculations are worthless. This has been pointed out to you, by Percipient I think, in another thread just a day or two ago. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: huh? You lost me here. Why do we have only a hundred million years? [/B][/QUOTE] ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Somewhere verifiable.... ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Aren't you taking the latest possible date for the appearance of surface water and the earliest date for the arrival of bacteria?
Nature - Not Found Even if the organisms questioned in the cited article turn out to be organism, at worst there is a few hundred million years not 100 million. Haven't we been over this before? Secondly, some of the molecules involved need not have been formed on Earth at all-- certain amino acids for ex. Thirdly, your probability calculations assume complete randomness and chemistry isn't completely random. It follows rules. Fourthly, are you calculating the chance of that one series of reactions will produce a protein (I believe you were talking about proteins) or do you realize that there would have been hundreds of millions or billion of simultaneous reactions going on? Gene posted some applicable links :
EvC Forum: Evolution vs. Thermodynamics ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: No, nothing that complicated. Chemicals react in different ways to different chemicals under different circumstances. It isn't a directed process but it isn't random either. It seems like this need to be taken into account. Forgive me if I miss some points you are trying to make. Admittedly, my chemistry could be better. [/b][/quote] I did cover that-look at my numbers-I assumed that 10^93 different reactions were going on at the same time every second, each one producing an protein of 100 amino acids even without counting how many 100 amino acids could be produced at the same time (divide the 10^81 bythe number of atoms in a 100 amino acid chain.)[/B][/QUOTE] Ok. Gotcha. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
Oh... and does this mean that you are accepting points one and two as valid criticisms?
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Isn't dust infall somewhere in the range of 200 tons per year currently? ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: oh wow... I'm going to have to start bathing more often.... thanks. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Neat. If I can't get into space, at least space can come to me ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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