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Author Topic:   Applying Science to Past Events
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 241 of 354 (144364)
09-24-2004 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by crashfrog
09-24-2004 12:40 AM


If you believe in God, then you also believe in the devil, and when man gives legal contract to the devil, by sinning, for him to do what he wants to you.
How can you look at intelligent life, and think that it came from non-intelligent life? Or even better yet, from nothing at all, a random pool of mud. By a series of mutations, lol.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by crashfrog, posted 09-24-2004 12:40 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by crashfrog, posted 09-24-2004 11:28 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 242 of 354 (144365)
09-24-2004 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by NosyNed
09-24-2004 1:23 AM


Re: Still a bit mixed up?
Is speciating a fact also?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by NosyNed, posted 09-24-2004 1:23 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by nator, posted 09-24-2004 9:37 AM riVeRraT has replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 243 of 354 (144383)
09-24-2004 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by riVeRraT
09-23-2004 4:26 PM


quote:
They spend their lives looking for answers, and trying to make a name for themselves, so that when they are gone, something will remain of them. Kind of like an afterlife. Why bother if you don't believe in an after life? What sense does it make to leave behind something if you can't even enjoy it?
Aren't you trying to create your own personal afterlife?
Why is this different if you do believe in an afterlife? Why bother looking for answers or trying to make a name for yourself when after you die, you will just continue living somewhere else..and forever? You can just procrastinate all you want since you have forever to get around to it? Also you have a limited concept of enjoyment as you have defined it. Why would I not enjoy figuring something out now that might be of importance to people in the future whether I am around or not? Should you just ignore your children since you will be dead when they are old anyway?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by riVeRraT, posted 09-23-2004 4:26 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 9:04 AM Mammuthus has replied

agnostic
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 354 (144393)
09-24-2004 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by AdminNosy
09-23-2004 11:18 AM


Re: Not on topic!
riVeRraT made a statement about God showing himself - I asked him to give details..
To me that is topical
This message has been edited by agnostic, 09-24-2004 06:16 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by AdminNosy, posted 09-23-2004 11:18 AM AdminNosy has not replied

contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 354 (144400)
09-24-2004 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by riVeRraT
09-23-2004 10:11 AM


quote:
This is where you are wrong. Really really wrong.
No, I'm not.
quote:
Faith comes in different levels. Some things require more faith than others. It all depends how much you know about it.
Thus you confirm my charge - your whole argument depends on a manipulation of the term faith to describe radically different things.
quote:
But believing in God for everyone is different. I say for myself that I found God through studying the bible, and asking Jesus into my life. I believed he was there by faith for many years.
So what? You believe it - its still not true in any sense, is it?
Yet you previously admitted that in the case of the sun, we know things about it. So you recobnise the distinction between a "belief" you read in a book of lies, and thing you actually know and understand.
quote:
So you see, I have many reasons for believing in God. They may be subjestive to you, but they aren't to me.
Umm, thats exactly what makes them subjective. Unlike the suns rotation around the earth, which is objective.
Thus, again, you confirm my charge that your position is totally illogical and manipulative; you are categorising both objective knowledge and subjective opinion into the term "faith", andf then claiming that all knowledge is a form of faith.
Thats a deliberate deception. Yes I know good from evil, thats why I know christians lie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by riVeRraT, posted 09-23-2004 10:11 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 4:53 PM contracycle has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 246 of 354 (144402)
09-24-2004 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Mammuthus
09-24-2004 4:37 AM


Why is this different if you do believe in an afterlife?
Because were we are going we may still be able to look down on earth and see directly the fruits of our labors. How sweet would that be. Then meet the people later on again.
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 09-24-2004 08:04 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Mammuthus, posted 09-24-2004 4:37 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Mammuthus, posted 09-24-2004 10:16 AM riVeRraT has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 247 of 354 (144407)
09-24-2004 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by riVeRraT
09-24-2004 2:42 AM


Re: Still a bit mixed up?
quote:
Is speciating a fact also?
Yes.
We have directly observed speciation both in the lab and in the field.
Our inferred evidence of speciation from both genetic and fossil evidence is very abundant.
Speciation is a big chunk of the evidence, the facts, that supports the Theory of Evolution.
Remember, the theory is an explanatatory framework for the evidence, the facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 2:42 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 4:55 PM nator has replied
 Message 254 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 4:55 PM nator has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 248 of 354 (144409)
09-24-2004 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by riVeRraT
09-24-2004 9:04 AM


quote:
Because were we are going we may still be able to look down on earth and see directly the fruits of our labors. How sweet would that be. Then meet the people later on again.
Or maybe you will see nothing the way you cannot see your afterlife from here..and then you are stuck in the same position as those who don't believe in an afterlife at all...or maybe after you are gone, your labors are perverted into something awful...or or or...none of this adds up to a shred of evidence for an afterlife or why not believing in one would have any impact on my quality of life except to emphasize enjoying it while it lasts instead of waiting for something else to come along.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 9:04 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 249 of 354 (144411)
09-24-2004 10:28 AM


Topic Drift Alert
Diversions into off-topic areas are often necessary in the interests of clarification. Clarifying the distinction between the fact and theory of evolution seems to fit this requirement, the existence of God does not.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 250 of 354 (144420)
09-24-2004 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by riVeRraT
09-24-2004 2:40 AM


How can you look at intelligent life, and think that it came from non-intelligent life? Or even better yet, from nothing at all, a random pool of mud. By a series of mutations, lol.
Because that's what the evidence suggests. Because that model makes accurate predictions. Because your common sense doesn't count for shit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 2:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 5:11 PM crashfrog has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 251 of 354 (144431)
09-24-2004 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by riVeRraT
09-24-2004 12:24 AM


quote:
Oh yes they are. It was made very clear to me from the very first thread I participated in, that evolution is fact. That is the belief of some I suppose.
The FACT of evolution is that organisms change over time. I was very careful in using the phrase "the theory of evolution". The Theory part of the equation postulates mechanisms that caused the observed changes. It is this part that is never considered to be absolute fact by any scientist, any scientist worth talking to that is.
quote:
As far as God is concerned, that is the driving force why I came in here to begin with. I am here to share with you that it is easy to find God. You just have to look for him, just like digging up a dinosaur.
I tried for 20 years, didn't find him. I am glad that you have found something to live for, but don't expect everyone to have the same experience as you. Also, God and fossils are two different things and equating the two is not going to change the fact that religious revelation is different than scientific evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 12:24 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 5:05 PM Loudmouth has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 252 of 354 (144496)
09-24-2004 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by contracycle
09-24-2004 9:00 AM


Quote of the day:
the suns rotation around the earth
Awesome!
thats why I know christians lie.
Yes some of them do, as do some scientists, but not this one. If I am wrong it may not mean I am lying. Please don't resort to name calling, it's stupid.
My point is humans seem to need some kind of faith.
Whether religous or other.
Maybe once you find God, you will feel differently.
Peace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by contracycle, posted 09-24-2004 9:00 AM contracycle has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 253 of 354 (144499)
09-24-2004 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by nator
09-24-2004 9:37 AM


Re: Still a bit mixed up?
What species have we witnessed forst hand to change?
And how does evolution attempt to explain how intelligent life came from non-intelligent life. Please don't repeat the theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by nator, posted 09-24-2004 9:37 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Rei, posted 09-24-2004 5:00 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 257 by Loudmouth, posted 09-24-2004 5:05 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 260 by nator, posted 09-24-2004 5:17 PM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 254 of 354 (144500)
09-24-2004 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by nator
09-24-2004 9:37 AM


Re: Still a bit mixed up?
dam!
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 09-24-2004 03:55 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by nator, posted 09-24-2004 9:37 AM nator has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7013 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 255 of 354 (144505)
09-24-2004 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by riVeRraT
09-24-2004 4:55 PM


Re: Still a bit mixed up?
It depends. What are you calling "non-intelligent life", and what are you calling "intelligent life"? Give me as narrow of a cutoff as you can, please (i.e., don't just say "bacteria vs. human", if you think "frog vs. dog" is "non-intelligent vs. intelligent".)

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 4:55 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by riVeRraT, posted 09-24-2004 9:07 PM Rei has replied

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