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Author Topic:   what is feminism?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 46 of 147 (144872)
09-26-2004 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by crashfrog
09-26-2004 4:17 PM


i was answering this statement
among themselves in their own little rarified world, nobody, including me, cares what they think but them.
in ,y opinion, i made a reasonable reply. it may not be non-academic, but it is non-feminist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 4:17 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 4:46 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 47 of 147 (144873)
09-26-2004 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by macaroniandcheese
09-26-2004 4:39 PM


among themselves in their own little rarified world, nobody, including me, cares what they think but them.
Academia = rarified world. I would have thought that was obvious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-26-2004 4:39 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-26-2004 5:11 PM crashfrog has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 48 of 147 (144876)
09-26-2004 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by crashfrog
09-26-2004 4:46 PM


oh yes of course.... academia is a tiny, tiny little world with only one viewpoint. how could i forget.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 4:46 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 5:41 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 49 of 147 (144880)
09-26-2004 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by macaroniandcheese
09-26-2004 5:11 PM


academia is a tiny, tiny little world with only one viewpoint. how could i forget.
More specifically, how could you forget that that was exactly the point that you made - that there is a pervasive view in regards to feminism in all of academia, not just the women's studies fields?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-26-2004 5:11 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-26-2004 5:45 PM crashfrog has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 50 of 147 (144881)
09-26-2004 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by crashfrog
09-26-2004 5:41 PM


i didn't say that, and no there isn't.
there are other disciplines who give some credence to the fiminist views or at least discuss them.
but as those who follow modern feminist philosophy say that all science and mathematics are masculine and thus flawed, those fields pay little or no attention to them. (even though they say that all other areas are flawed as well... )
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 09-26-2004 04:47 PM
cause people can't read continuity.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 09-26-2004 06:17 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 5:41 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 52 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 6:10 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 147 (144882)
09-26-2004 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by macaroniandcheese
09-26-2004 5:45 PM


quote:
but as feminists say that all science and mathematics are masculine and thus flawed....
Oh, yes? Hey, isn't schrafinator a feminist? Shraf, do you think all science and mathematics are masculine and thus flawed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-26-2004 5:45 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 52 of 147 (144883)
09-26-2004 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by macaroniandcheese
09-26-2004 5:45 PM


i didn't say that
quote:
i took an ecology class called environment and society. we studied all forms of ecology. as part of this, we studied feminine ecology. then i took a human geography class. again. we studied the feminine. i took a rhetoric class. we studied feminism.
What was this if not to say that there was a broad consensus across academia that feminism constitutes a certain view?
And remember that this was the question you were responding to:
quote:
Where is the evidence that their views are making any inroads into the hearts and minds of the general populace, especially those who believe in gender equality?
which prompted my comment in the first place; what you posted had absolutely nothing to do with Schraf's question. In fact every subsequent post of yours has been a total non sequiter - do you even know what we're talking about in this thread? Your posts defy any sort of attempt to connect them to the theme, or even each other.
If you can't keep track of the points under discussion, maybe you should rethink your participation here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-26-2004 5:45 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 53 of 147 (144888)
09-26-2004 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by crashfrog
09-26-2004 6:10 PM


fine with me.

This message is a reply to:
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 54 of 147 (144914)
09-26-2004 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by arachnophilia
09-25-2004 5:50 PM


Women can be...terrifying
and is it somehow more acceptable that male adolescents pay about 1.5x the amount of car insurance that female adolescents do?
By no means, and I completely disagree with anyone who says women are safer drivers. I could go quit a while telling horror stories about these crazy volleyball players that almost ran over me in the parking lot freshmen year... twice!
Oh, and let's not forget this lady coach at a wrestling camp I went to just before summer ended... who nearly ran over a friend and me while honking and yelling "Get the hell off the road ya punks!" It was the parking lot by the way, and she was doing at least 40.
Scary people...

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by arachnophilia, posted 09-25-2004 5:50 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 9:05 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 55 of 147 (144918)
09-26-2004 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by One_Charred_Wing
09-26-2004 9:00 PM


By no means, and I completely disagree with anyone who says women are safer drivers.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". I'm not saying that I know for sure that young men are riskier drivers, but we need to see the evidence that that is the case.
Insurance companies don't play on stereotypes; they play on the bottom line. If they charge young men more - and don't forget, men have 100 times the female dose of a hormone known to cause risky, show-off behavior (maybe you've heard of it, its called "testosterone") - then its reasonable to suggest that they do it because it costs more on average to insure that cohort group.
If it cost more to insure the young female cohort group, insurance companies would be charging them more.
Scary people...
Well, the problem with insurance is that they play the averages by grouping us into cohort groups. As a young man, you're most like other young men (as opposed to 40 year old mothers in minivans). It costs more to insure young men, on average.
So all us young men pay more. It sucks, but it's not sexist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 09-26-2004 9:00 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 09-27-2004 12:29 AM crashfrog has replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 56 of 147 (144957)
09-27-2004 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by crashfrog
09-26-2004 9:05 PM


crashfrog writes:
and don't forget, men have 100 times the female dose of a hormone known to cause risky, show-off behavior (maybe you've heard of it, its called "testosterone")
WHOA!! I knew we had way more, but 100 times?! Geez. Okay, that's a legit point. Still, it's only as legit as giving women less for life insurance simply because they live longer. We don't get to choose which chromosomes get matched up to make us.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Well, that's a good point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 9:05 PM crashfrog has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 57 of 147 (144958)
09-27-2004 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by One_Charred_Wing
09-27-2004 12:29 AM


I knew we had way more, but 100 times?! Geez.
Something like that, by blood volume or whatever.
Still, it's only as legit as giving women less for life insurance simply because they live longer. We don't get to choose which chromosomes get matched up to make us.
Yeah, it sucks. But unfortunately there's no law that says insurance companies can't attract business from cheap cohort groups by lowering insurance rates for those groups. Since they're so rich, I doubt there ever will be such a law.
Insurance in general is kind of a scam, when you think about it; it seems like the people that need it the most are the sickest people, who can't get it at all because they're sick. In the meantime, the people who pay the least are the people who need it least; people wealthy enough to keep themselves in healthy working, eating, and playing habits.
There's an assload of stuff you don't get to pick, like what diseases or conditions you're genetically susceptible to. Rest assured that at such time as insurance companies can test for these conditions cheaply, your premiums will be based a great deal on your genetics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 09-27-2004 12:29 AM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 58 of 147 (144998)
09-27-2004 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Chiroptera
09-26-2004 6:05 PM


quote:
but as feminists say that all science and mathematics are masculine and thus flawed....
Oh, yes? Hey, isn't schrafinator a feminist? Shraf, do you think all science and mathematics are masculine and thus flawed?
Yes, I am a feminist, but no, I don't think that all science and mathematics are masculine and therefore flawed.
I think that is a stupid view.
Hey, Crash, aren't you a feminist?
Do you think that all science and mathematics are masuline and therefore flawed?
Oh, and look what I found after a quick google on "girls math science feminist":
The main page is an organization called Feminist Majority Foundation, and within that is a pro-choice group called Feminist Campus.
Page not found – Feminist Campus
Association for Women in Science
AWIS is the Association for Women in Science. We are a non-profit association which works to promote women's activities in all scientific fields, from mentoring to scholarships to job listings. AWIS has over 5,000 members in fields spanning the life and physical sciences, mathematics, social science, and engineering. Over 50% of AWIS members have doctorates in their respective fields, and hold positions at all levels of industry, academia, and government. As part of its efforts to promote the entrance and advancement of women in science, AWIS has a long-standing commitment to fostering the careers of women science professionals. At the national level, AWIS publishes a variety of materials to inform girls and women about science programs and women's issues, including the bimonthly AWIS Magazine. The organization serves as a voice for women in science by helping to shape national policy through Congressional testimony and by participating in a variety of national coalitions.
Why, I thought that feminists thought math and science were bad and masculine?
Why would these feminists be promoting science and math to women and girls?
I'm so confused.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 67 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-25-2005 10:04 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 59 of 147 (145005)
09-27-2004 10:23 AM


From a "Mother Jones" interview with Gloria Steinem.
I think this says it all.
Italics added by me.
Gloria – Mother Jones
Q: From a distance, a fair bit of academic feminist writing and argument seems pretty near impenetrable.
A: Yeah, but that's stupid. Nobody cares about them. That's careerism. These poor women in academia have to talk this silly language that nobody can understand in order to be accepted, they think. If I read the word "problematize" one more time, I'm going to vomit. If I hear people talking about "feminist praxis"--I mean, it's practice, say practice. But I recognize the fact that we have this ridiculous system of tenure, that the whole thrust of academia is one that values education, in my opinion, in inverse ratio to its usefulness--and what you write in inverse relationship to its understandability. So I think the answer to it is to look with some compassion at the situation in which the women who are writing this gobbledygook find themselves and to say, "How can we solve this?"
Well, one way we can solve it is to get a better exchange going between activism and academia, so that the academics are putting their glorious intellectual powers to work on researching real problems. But I don't see any point in blaming feminism--which is essentially a populist movement--for what filters through in an academic setting we don't control.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 09-27-2004 09:24 AM

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 60 of 147 (145006)
09-27-2004 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by nator
09-27-2004 10:12 AM


Hey, Crash, aren't you a feminist?
Why, yes, yes I am.
Do you think that all science and mathematics are masuline and therefore flawed?
Well, my wife's a graduate student in biology. Let me see if she's grown a penis lately.
Nope, just as I thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by nator, posted 09-27-2004 10:12 AM nator has not replied

  
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