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Author Topic:   Supernatural vs. Scientifically Unproven
Big B
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 27 (14600)
07-31-2002 9:54 PM


I was just wondering what people's views on this were. Is supernatural a possible synonym for scientifically unproven? People have said that bigfoot, UFO's and the like are supernatural, but so were giant squids and the northern lights before science proved their existence was real. In the case of squids there wasn't a lot of physical evidence (at least no more than there is for bigfoot or UFO's) until recently. So, is it really acceptable to flat out reject something based on it being 'supernatural'? I say this, because it seems as though there is some close-mindedness out of the materialist camp. Since things like souls or God can't be proven by science (yet) then the possibility is rejected. This seems like the similar arguement that is frequently used against Christians (or any other religion for that matter). Basically everything is molded around a preconceived set of values for how the world operates. In the case of Christians people try to mold science around the Flood, etc. and in the case of materialist there can be no such thing as OBE's, NDE's, or ESP. So, does supernaturalism have to be reduced as phenoma that is 'miraculous' or can it simply be in defiance of certain principles we currently know about physics?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by John, posted 07-31-2002 10:23 PM Big B has not replied
 Message 3 by nator, posted 08-01-2002 12:14 AM Big B has not replied
 Message 4 by allen, posted 08-12-2002 2:52 PM Big B has not replied
 Message 13 by Brad McFall, posted 08-15-2002 1:50 PM Big B has not replied
 Message 21 by Peter, posted 08-20-2002 4:12 AM Big B has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 27 (14602)
07-31-2002 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Big B
07-31-2002 9:54 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Big B:
I was just wondering what people's views on this were. Is supernatural a possible synonym for scientifically unproven? People have said that bigfoot, UFO's and the like are supernatural, but so were giant squids and the northern lights before science proved their existence was real. In the case of squids there wasn't a lot of physical evidence (at least no more than there is for bigfoot or UFO's) until recently. So, is it really acceptable to flat out reject something based on it being 'supernatural'? I say this, because it seems as though there is some close-mindedness out of the materialist camp. Since things like souls or God can't be proven by science (yet) then the possibility is rejected. This seems like the similar arguement that is frequently used against Christians (or any other religion for that matter). Basically everything is molded around a preconceived set of values for how the world operates. In the case of Christians people try to mold science around the Flood, etc. and in the case of materialist there can be no such thing as OBE's, NDE's, or ESP. So, does supernaturalism have to be reduced as phenoma that is 'miraculous' or can it simply be in defiance of certain principles we currently know about physics?
I don't think that 'unproven' means 'doesn't exist' I just want evidence for is said to exist.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Big B, posted 07-31-2002 9:54 PM Big B has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 3 of 27 (14610)
08-01-2002 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Big B
07-31-2002 9:54 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Big B:
I was just wondering what people's views on this were. Is supernatural a possible synonym for scientifically unproven? People have said that bigfoot, UFO's and the like are supernatural, but so were giant squids and the northern lights before science proved their existence was real. In the case of squids there wasn't a lot of physical evidence (at least no more than there is for bigfoot or UFO's) until recently. So, is it really acceptable to flat out reject something based on it being 'supernatural'? I say this, because it seems as though there is some close-mindedness out of the materialist camp. Since things like souls or God can't be proven by science (yet) then the possibility is rejected. This seems like the similar arguement that is frequently used against Christians (or any other religion for that matter). Basically everything is molded around a preconceived set of values for how the world operates. In the case of Christians people try to mold science around the Flood, etc. and in the case of materialist there can be no such thing as OBE's, NDE's, or ESP. So, does supernaturalism have to be reduced as phenoma that is 'miraculous' or can it simply be in defiance of certain principles we currently know about physics?
There is a difference between the philosophy of Naturalism, in which it is stated that "nature is all there is", and the tenets of scientific investigation. These tenets make no comment upon the supernatural, because, by definition, the supernatural is "outside nature", so therefore cannot be detected by natural means.
Science does not deny the possibility of God, or ESP, or what have you. It does, however, require reliable positive evidence which is observable by anyone.
If, let's say, Theraputic Touch practitioners were able to feel Emily Rosa's hand hovering over theirs better than chance would predict, then I would pay attention, and want to do lots more tests.
However, the nurses did worse than chance would predict. In truth, the only reason they agreed to be tested was because it was a little girl's science fair project and they never dreamed that the results would make it into JAMA.
http://www.quackwatch.com/...ryRelatedTopics/ttresponse.html
So in summary, science says, "There is no evidnece for X, so no determination can be made."
This is very different from saying, "X is impossible."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Big B, posted 07-31-2002 9:54 PM Big B has not replied

  
allen
Guest


Message 4 of 27 (15302)
08-12-2002 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Big B
07-31-2002 9:54 PM


I was just wondering what people's views on this were. Is supernatural a possible synonym for scientifically unproven? People have said that bigfoot, UFO's and the like are supernatural, but so were giant squids and the northern lights before science proved their existence was real. In the case of squids there wasn't a lot of physical evidence (at least no more than there is for bigfoot or UFO's) until recently. So, is it really acceptable to flat out reject something based on it being 'supernatural'? I say this, because it seems as though there is some close-mindedness out of the materialist camp. Since things like souls or God can't be proven by science (yet) then the possibility is rejected. This seems like the similar arguement that is frequently used against Christians (or any other religion for that matter). Basically everything is molded around a preconceived set of values for how the world operates. In the case of Christians people try to mold science around the Flood, etc. and in the case of materialist there can be no such thing as OBE's, NDE's, or ESP. So, does supernaturalism have to be reduced as phenoma that is 'miraculous' or can it simply be in defiance of certain principles we currently know about physics?
....................................................................
ok...the word supernatural= a natural occurance beyond natural explaination. Yes i said natural occurance. why?. because super is a word that means beyond normal...or more powerfull than...so we have in the word : SUPERNATURAL our answer to our question posted above.
does the supernatural exist.. yes it does..is it unseen.. no it is not when it is allowed to be seen...and unseen when it is to work in its own spiritual relm. So here you have two worlds where only one entity (sic),can go to and from either world...and this can only be done supernaturally..it is (natural for the supernatural to visit and interact in the natural world)...but unnatural for we humans to visit the supernatural world..tho it is documented in the bible, that humans do posess a spirit of the supernatural world, but yet cannot visit the supernatural world because our flesh bodies prevent us from entering the spiritual world..to do so would be to reach a state that would allow humans to go to the supernatural world..and that act that allows us to do that is called : DEATH. Now the bible warns we humans that we will die 2 deaths,, one of the flesh, and one of the spirit..but thoes who have made God their god, die only one death, and that is of the flesh.So if you read the documentation throughout the bible, you will find the warnings of entering the supernatural world by death, is a final act. But it also document how humans can live eternally in the supernatural simply by believing and accepting the act that Jesus did to cause us to live eternally in the supernatural world...and Jesus gives us a word for that ..faith..read romans 10 9-11..it will explain how to be able to enter the eternal everlasting relm of the supernatural simply by confessing,professing the name of Jesus, and having faith in Jesus and what he did on the cross...time is running short...the signs are here and can be seen that time is about to end, the bible gives proof that certain signs will be seen by man before Jesus returns for his people..by people i mean thoes that believe in him, ask forgivness of their sins, and have faith in him and make him their only one god. Now that is what is documented in the bible..i surely do not want to wait for hell to grab me in fire and brim stone for eternity...when all i have to do that which is stated in ROMANS 10 9-11. The very act of FAITH. It is an act of faith that i have even tho i have never seen the supernatural..or a ufo...or esp...the payoff is heaven ..the loss of not believing in Gods word written to all men..is an eternity in hell fire brimstone suffering pain etc. etc. dont get me wrong i am not trying to preach...im just using the only documented proof written thousands of years ago a book that warns us of eternal damnation if we do not prepare ourselves NOW for eternity.. i dont want to take that chance..do you... well you can spend your life tossing words of evolution around till the day you expire..but when i expire, i will have a true journy to heaven..because i believe in what the Bible tells me..not one man can tell me different..if you would spend your time reading the bible as a historical actual event like you do your research on other topics, you will come to the truth of the creation of our world we live in..because there is something far more important than banging your heads against a post (lol),trying to find answers from men who weren't around whe God created the Heaven and the Earth for mankind to live on and to be near to God himself..it was in the garden of Eden where man decided to take it on themselves to take on sin and act on it and believe it, and now spiritually have died from it.The only bridge back to God is provided to us (as documented in the bible), is the act that Jesus did on the cross.It is a faith as that of a little child has to believe on Jesus. The act he did is to provide the bridge back to the way it was before we sinned in the garden of eden. and an eternal life with God for eternity.. the word used is SAVED.. saved from what ...from the clutches of HELL for all who do not come to the bridge back to God thru what Jesus did..so you see ...we all are in alot more eternal trouble...because when you weigh the payoff...its either HEAVEN OR HELL. well you have to read the bible..im not maken anyone do anything. it is your own choice. see you all come to these posts to ask heavy questions full of large words and links as proof and you respond back and forth looking to each other for answers..remember..non of we humans were there in the beginning..how can we try to convince eachother in things we no not? YET THE BIBLE IS A DOCUMENTATION OF THE BEGINNING OF MANKIND, and yet full of supernatural hosts that we are trying to look thru the scales that cover our eyes.. we hear but do not believe because we have no faith...we think we need proof, when it is sitting before us.Yet we neglect to research the bible to answer our questions. Who are you going to believe..man or the creator himself...AS FOR ufos and esp, the word ufo is+ unidentified flying object.. yet we read in the bible that certain persons were caught up into the clouds on a firey chariot. thousands of years ago..yes thousands..we cannot prove the amout of technilogical advancement before the flood, but again sitting before us is documented proof that firey charriots ascending into the heavens.. up that is .lol. AS FOR esp exta senceory power, when we are allowed by the supernatural relm to see things in the supernatural as david did in the bible as shown the future by god..then we can see into the supernatural world.. but esp cannot be fully obtained untill we expire. No one man can ever go to the other side to experiance the supernatural world unless he is of the supernatural world.The bible states that no man can enter the kingdom of heaven without first going thru Jesus the son of God. IN other words..you are here..X on the map lol...and you cannot go there to the supernatural world for eternity unless you have faith in what Jesus has done to provide that bridge back to God /heaven/ were we were before adam and eve sinned in the garden of eden..the bible will point out that God came down from heaven to visit adam to talk to him and walk with adam in the cool of the evening.But when adam sinned, God cannot be with sin, so God threw him and eve out the garden. The only way back is as i mentioned beforehand ...it is thru Jesus we re=aquire our positions with God..thru Jesus.. the other choice is damming...God made a place for satan and his fallen angles..called it HELL. that is were one is also thrown to when one rejects the bridge back to him.. by not believing in the forgiving act that Jesus did to bridge man back to God. Hell i read is forever in tourment in fire /brimstone/darkness/pain/nashing of teeth/etc. etc. seperated from the light of God...no water...etc. etc. as documented in the BIBLE. Let's not spend our lives quibbling about creation and evolution...because one day you may pass, and it will be to late to accept the forgiveness Jesus offers all..
Please post your responses.. i know i cannot spell...but i have faith un measurable.!
allen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Big B, posted 07-31-2002 9:54 PM Big B has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by John, posted 08-12-2002 10:04 PM You replied

     
John
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 27 (15323)
08-12-2002 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by allen
08-12-2002 2:52 PM


quote:
Originally posted by allen:
Is supernatural a possible synonym for scientifically unproven?
Sometimes.
quote:
So, is it really acceptable to flat out reject something based on it being 'supernatural'?
I don't think anyone really does. What people like me ask is that claims of the supernatural be proven.
quote:
Since things like souls or God can't be proven by science (yet) then the possibility is rejected.
No, the possibility is not allowed into the logic. This is not the same thing. Once some one comes up with data, then the supernatural can be used. This is the point. The supernatural == no data.
quote:
So, does supernaturalism have to be reduced as phenoma that is 'miraculous' or can it simply be in defiance of certain principles we currently know about physics?
I am perfectly ok with this, but you can't use 'it might one day be proven' in an argument formulated before that day comes.
quote:
does the supernatural exist.. yes it does..is it unseen.. no it is not when it is allowed to be seen...and unseen when it is to work in its own spiritual relm.
Defining does not make it so.
Skipping a bunch of sermon-y stuff.
quote:
Who are you going to believe..man or the creator himself
Show me a creator and I'll believe him, but I hope he's a her.
quote:
but again sitting before us is documented proof that firey charriots ascending into the heavens..
hmmm.....
More sermon-y stuff.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by allen, posted 08-12-2002 2:52 PM allen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by allen, posted 08-13-2002 3:06 PM John has not replied

  
allen
Guest


Message 6 of 27 (15382)
08-13-2002 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by John
08-12-2002 10:04 PM


so john you hope god is a woman...lol..i just cant believe you read the bible 4 times and once in hebrew! because if you did read the bible,,you would have read the passage where Jesus refers to God as : My Father..now if your mind is in working order...the word father is of the male side of the sexes. Common john admitt you just love to respond in a snied way... causeing more attention to your wittless remarks...you will never understand what is being said because i precieve that your mind is one sided in the thought process. If i were you...i would take a very serious look at your spirit..and make a decision as to what you are going to decide in your endevor..pahhh what ever your trip is..what ever you get off on...just dont make sence to me.. you make it hard to debate with your synical remarks and short bursting fly off the lip shoulder hunching ..i dont care attitude you seem to be fueming off...i do believe i will go to another post, some where there is a place were i can get a solid and adult type of reasoning conversation...without the bland clickity clack sound off the railroad track response from people who have no clue to anything in life not even their own thinking...
sorry do you understand that john... in short..
bug off...smarty.
alle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by John, posted 08-12-2002 10:04 PM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by John, posted 08-13-2002 9:16 PM You replied

     
John
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 27 (15392)
08-13-2002 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by allen
08-13-2002 3:06 PM


quote:
Originally posted by allen:
so john you hope god is a woman...lol..i just cant believe you read the bible 4 times and once in hebrew!
Strange but true, though admittedly, my Hebrew is poor.
[quote]because if you did read the bible,,you would have read the passage where Jesus refers to God as : My Father..now if your mind is in working order...the word father is of the male side of the sexes.[/b][/quote]
You just don't get it. Until you or someone else can show me why I should believe Biblical mythology over another mythology, I DO NOT CARE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!
quote:
Common john admitt you just love to respond in a snied way... causeing more attention to your wittless remarks...
I respond with precisely the seriousness required and always in dead ernest.
quote:
you will never understand what is being said because i precieve that your mind is one sided in the thought process.
You have only to provide evidence for your position. Telling me to 'open my mind and just believe' doesn't stand to any kind of reason at all. This is the same line used by countless charlatans throughout history.
quote:
If i were you...i would take a very serious look at your spirit..
You have no idea how much looking I have done. And I am getting very irritated with assumptions about my person.
[quote][b]i do believe i will go to another post, some where there is a place were i can get a solid and adult type of reasoning conversation...[/quote]
[/b]
Read your own replies to me. All I see is you telling me that I am wrong and you are right. I need to open my mind and just believe. This is hardly adult reasoning.
quote:
without the bland clickity clack sound off the railroad track response from people who have no clue to anything in life not even their own thinking...
What arrogance to assume to know my thoughts! Basically I disagree and you have no rational response.
quote:
bug off...smarty.

Ah yes, that is what you meant by adult! Now I understand.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by allen, posted 08-13-2002 3:06 PM allen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by allen, posted 08-14-2002 8:48 PM John has not replied

  
allen
Guest


Message 8 of 27 (15450)
08-14-2002 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by John
08-13-2002 9:16 PM


i was not posting to make you believe anything..if you indeed have read the bible 4 times completely thru, and in hebrew,thats a plus for you...short of getting personal with you, i dont choose to do so, so if your looking for another chance to deny Jesus and what he did for you personally, is your choosing.I just wanted to share my thoughts on evolution vs. creation. I mean i just wanted to let someone else see what i believe..not to get picked apart, or to convince someone else to believe , i simply mean this in short:
THAT I BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS A HISTORICAL RECORD, THAT IT SHOWS PROOF TO A BELIEVER IN THE WORD THAT GOD HIMSELF HAS WRITTEN.THAT THERE IS A SPIRITUAL WORLD THAT LIVES ALONG SIDE US. THAT WE HUMANS HAVE A SPIRIT INSIDE US.THAT THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF THE LOST OR UNSAVED/THE SAVED/.
But yes the bible speaks of whores and liars and murderers and theives
and perverts and the like, because the bible warns these and all men (sinners), there is a judgement comming, and a spiritural damnation for the sinners.IM JUST SAYING THAT I BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS..BECAUSE IT ANSWERS MY FEARS...IT CLARIFYS WHAT I CANT SEE...SO I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE WHAT IT READS.. so you may have made your choice, and i cannot do anything about your choices..i do not live in your body so i dont care what you choose . I just feel it is a shame that adults today cant grasp the historical record the bible is..when a small child can accept it more easily with out any debate to its meaning..
I JUST THINK IT IS UNBELIEVEABLE ADULTS HAVE TO NIT PIC THE WORDS THAT COME FROM THE TRUE GOD HIMSELF..AND FLATLY REJECTING THE OLDEST DOCUMENT THAT TELLS US WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BEGINNING AS OPPOSED TO A MERE MAN WHO BURRIES A PIGS SKULL ALONG WITH A HUMAN REMAINS AND SAYS HE FOUND THE FIRST HOMOERECTUS..AND THAT DARWIN BEFORE HE DIED CLAIMED IN HIS LAST WORDS...THAT THERE MUST BE A GOD WHO CREATED. I JUST AM SAYING WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE TRUE...but you may go ahead as you will...hack apart my post, and have fun..it dont bother me at all..i just am waiting for someone to reply with an adult view to what i have written...i really dont care what you believe in...i just posted what i have found in my life..and was shareing it with you.
But go ahead and call me names and tell me i need to start reading hebrew just because you have.. well im happy you can read hebrew...that is your choice not mine...i have heard that the hebrew language is more detailed and has more true meaning than the king james verson of the bible...happy happy happy...im not going to get pissed off because im less educated than others...i know i am, and i dont intend to go to college..or for that matter care how i spell...
to me that is not at all important for me...CAN I JUST SHARE ..sheesh.
oh, its your turn John...id like to hear some detail as to what you believe on the main topic i was trying to relate to..evolution/creation using the bible as a documented proof of creation. just my beliefs john..john do you have ANY BELIEFS?
then share them with me because i am truely a kind person..i just want to share what i believe, not convert, not twist anyones arm..so lets reply to that ok john...dont get personal . .i havent been.
alle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by John, posted 08-13-2002 9:16 PM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by John, posted 08-14-2002 9:38 PM You replied

     
John
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 27 (15452)
08-14-2002 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by allen
08-14-2002 8:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by allen:
I mean i just wanted to let someone else see what i believe..not to get picked apart
Did you happen to notice that this is a discussion forum?
quote:
THAT I BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS A HISTORICAL RECORD, THAT IT SHOWS PROOF TO A BELIEVER
I'm not. Where is the proof for the rest of us?
quote:
IM JUST SAYING THAT I BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS..BECAUSE IT ANSWERS MY FEARS...IT CLARIFYS WHAT I CANT SEE...SO I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE WHAT IT READS..
I can answer your fears too, just give me a list. L Ron Hubbard can do the same, so can Confusius, and Buddhism, and Islam, and Shaolin, and etc. Why do you not believe them?
quote:
I just feel it is a shame that adults today cant grasp the historical record the bible is..when a small child can accept it more easily with out any debate to its meaning..
Ever notice that you can convince a child af pretty much anything? This is why we have age of consent laws and such like. Your argument is ridiculous.
quote:
I JUST THINK IT IS UNBELIEVEABLE ADULTS HAVE TO NIT PIC THE WORDS THAT COME FROM THE TRUE GOD HIMSELF..
Nope, pick apart a book of fairy tales perhaps....
quote:
AND FLATLY REJECTING THE OLDEST DOCUMENT
Patently not true. The Rig Vedas are older. So are the mythos of Babylon, Sumeria and Egypt actually.
quote:
THAT TELLS US WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BEGINNING
Which tale is pretty much the same as the tales told by the Sumerians, Egyptians, Babylonians....
quote:
AS OPPOSED TO A MERE MAN WHO BURRIES A PIGS SKULL ALONG WITH A HUMAN REMAINS AND SAYS HE FOUND THE FIRST HOMOERECTUS..
Better than a god who buried an extensive fossil record to trick us wouldn't you say?
quote:
AND THAT DARWIN BEFORE HE DIED CLAIMED IN HIS LAST WORDS...THAT THERE MUST BE A GOD WHO CREATED.
Again, patently not true. Darwins daughter debunked this lie. The lady Hope, wife of James Hope, claimed to have heard these last words. She wasn't there!!!!! Doesn't it bother you to pass along lies and fabrication as truth?
quote:
hack apart my post, and have fun..
'k
quote:
i just am waiting for someone to reply with an adult view to what i have written...
Doesn't this mean that you can't wait for someone to agree with you? This is a very childish attitude. I, personally, can't wait for someone to disagree with me. I learn more that way. But you aren't here to try to learn anything. You've made that clear.
quote:
But go ahead and call me names and tell me i need to start reading hebrew just because you have.. well im happy you can read hebrew...that is your choice not mine...i have heard that the hebrew language is more detailed and has more true meaning than the king james verson of the bible...happy happy happy...
And a LOT easier than English. Give it a try. How can you know the history of the KJB and still read it? Oh wait, I bet you don't know the history of the KJB!
quote:
im not going to get pissed off because im less educated than others...i know i am, and i dont intend to go to college..or for that matter care how i spell...
Ah yes... all I need to know I learned in kindergarden. How adult is that, really?
quote:
to me that is not at all important for me...CAN I JUST SHARE ..sheesh.
Why should you have the luxury? I am being severely criticised for my part of the sharing.
quote:
id like to hear some detail as to what you believe on the main topic i was trying to relate to..evolution/creation using the bible as a documented proof of creation.
Though I doubt you really want to hear my opinions.....
You cannot use the Bible as documented proof of anything until you can verify the source. You have not done so. And as far as I can tell, you haven't tried. Tautologies don't count. Faith doesn't count either, because faith can 'prove' anything. And does.
quote:
john do you have ANY BELIEFS?
Of course, all of them tentative and dependent upon evidence.
quote:
then share them with me
Basically, I am a very radical empiricists though not precisely a naturalist.
quote:
john...dont get personal . .i havent been.
Like hell you haven't!!!
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
[Fix UBB quoting. --Admin]
[This message has been edited by Admin, 08-15-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by allen, posted 08-14-2002 8:48 PM allen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by allen, posted 08-14-2002 11:30 PM John has not replied

  
allen
Guest


Message 10 of 27 (15457)
08-14-2002 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by John
08-14-2002 9:38 PM


John
Some people make me laugh but, you make me laugh hysterically until I start crying and I can no longer take your stupidity any more because you have shown yourself the true rear end of a donkey and I am sickened by your lack of real intelligence. You profusely spew from your fingers words of empty reasoning and I really dont care to continue this whatever it is of a conversation in this forum so please let me depart from your blind eyes and numbing conversation you spew out at me. I no longer care what the hell you think or say or do or whatever you are, and I could give you a quarter to call someone who cares but in your case you would debate your way to the laundry mat instead of the phone booth and loose the quarter along the way, I have no feeling for you and your dumb thinking, you would reject a helping hand if it was offered to you while you hang on a ledge screaming for help, I hope this post causes you to realize this is how I see your preveous posts to me, all run togeter but in a line, all close but no winner, truth is what one sees as an honest quest finalized after searching ALL aspects of one shunt. You should stop looking so far away for the truth as it is sitting in front of you if you are holding the Bible. Did you not know, dear friend, that the scales of hell cover your eyes, and that all you need to do is have simple faith, and didn't you read in the bible not to learn of or listen to other religions least you fall in them? John, you cannot convince me one iota that you read and applied the word of the only one living God. Please don't even throw evil names at me of other gods, because I don't worship them and never will, in your case you don't even have a god, you are too busy escaping the one thing you know in your heart that you need to come to Jesus. Don't tell me different. If I hurt your kindergarden feelings I apologize for that, I know a good mind is not a thing to waste. Stop wasting your mind for your own sake. Your answers to my post are actually quite good. I hope you do well in your quest in finding Jesus. Oops, sorry, because if you do research all the other gods in this world, you will find the best one to be Jesus.
I will read your responce to this post, but I will not respond to it because I don't want to keep casting my pearls in the wrong direction. Remember if you sow your seed on rock and gravel it will not grow, if you sow your seed on fertal land it will grow and produce good fruit. Which one do you want to be, the seed on the rock or the seed on the fertile land. All the proof I have for you is in the bible, so read it again, John, stop being hardheaded, your spiritual future, and your everlasting spiritual life depends on the choice you make. Buddah or Jesus.
allen
[Restored spaces to the post. --Admin]
[This message has been edited by Admin, 08-15-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by John, posted 08-14-2002 9:38 PM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by John, posted 08-15-2002 12:37 AM You replied

     
John
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 27 (15460)
08-15-2002 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by allen
08-14-2002 11:30 PM


For those who care....
[QUOTE]Originally posted by allen:
[B]john
some people make me laugh but you make me laugh hysterically until l i start crying and i can no longer take your stupidity anymore because you have shown yourself the true rear end of a donkey and i am sickened by your lack of real intelegence you profusely spew from your fingers words of empty reasoning and i really dont care to continue this whatever it is of a conversation in this forum so please let me depart from your blind eyes and numming conversation you spew out at me i no longer care what the hell you think or say or do ow whatever you are and i could give you a quarter to call someone who cares but in your case you would debate your way to the laundrymat instead of the phone booth and loose the quarter along the way, i have no feeling for you and your dumb thinking, you would reject a helping hand if it was offered to you while you hang on a ledge screeming for help,i hope this post causes you to realiz this is how i see your preveous posts to me, all run togeter but in a line, all close but no winner, truth is what one sees as a honest quest finalized after searching ALL aspects of ones hunt. you should stop looking so far away for the truth as it is sitting in front of you if you are holding the bible. did you not know dear friend that the scales of hell cover your eyes, and that all you need to do is have simple faith, and did't you read in the bible not to learn of or listen to o the rreligions least you fall in them? John you cannot convince me one iota..that you read and applied the word of the only one living God. please don't even throw evil names at me of other gods, because i dont worship them and never will, in you case you dont even have a god, you are too busy escaping the one thing you know in you heart that you need to come to Jesus. Don't tell me different. If i hurt your kindergarden feelings i appoligise for that, i know a good mind is not a thing to waste. Stop waisting your mind for your own sake. Your answers to my post are actually quite good. I hope you do well in your quest in finding Jesus. Oops sorry, because if you do research all the other gods in this world, you will find the best one to be Jesus.
i will read your responce to this post, but i will not respond to it because i dont want to keep casting my pearls in the wrong direction. Remember if you sow your seed on rock and gravel it will not grow, if you sow your seed on fertal land it will grow and produce good fruit. Which one do you want to be, the seed on the rock or the seed on the fertile land. All the proof i have for you is in the bible, so read it again john, stop being hardheaded, your spiritual future, and your ever lasting spiritual life depends on the choice you make.Buddah or Jesus.[b][/QUOTE]
Still waiting for that adult reply aren't you?
I think you make a great case for christianity. Lets run through it shall we?
you make me laugh hysterically
your stupidity
the true rear end of a donkey
your lack of real intelegence
empty reasoning
your blind eyes and numming conversation
debate your way to the laundrymat instead of the phone booth and loose the quarter along the way
your dumb thinking
reject a helping hand if it was offered to you while you hang on a ledge screeming for help
the scales of hell cover your eyes
you cannot convince me one iota
your kindergarden feelings
Stop waisting your mind
Your answers to my post are actually quite good. --- whoa, where did that come from?
casting my pearls in the wrong direction
stop being hardheaded
*******
So.... You mean if I read the Bible I can have all of this too!!!???
The name calling? The myopia? The utter refusal to even reply to any specific objections made?
WOW. I believe in one fell swoop you trumped even Jet.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by allen, posted 08-14-2002 11:30 PM allen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by allen, posted 08-15-2002 8:11 AM John has not replied

  
allen
Guest


Message 12 of 27 (15478)
08-15-2002 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by John
08-15-2002 12:37 AM


Dear John,
You WIN!
BUT , before i leave ok...... I would like to introduce you to
a man who teaches the king james version, with the help from the Hebrew language..so my DEAR FRIEND,(whom i now admire)..because i sincerely have begun to like your style..lol..you are a pure pleasure to write to. and i mean that with all my kindergarden learning..lol.
You have taught me one thing John...never step in with the bull,if you want to leave the arena with all your parts still intact!.
(in short john, you know what i mean lol..
well..i will give you my email address, and i hope we can become real friends,as i have totally enjoyed your putting me streight.You seem to have a true heart in your search for the truth..nonetheless, i have aquired an address that i pray you will write to, and ask for a list of tapes you can listen to. I have never come across any other
preacher or establishment that could prove word by word anything,
any question etc. that i could throw to them.. you can even write spacific questions, and they will respond..but i do hope you can at least ask for the list of tapes . You can jump around on the list, and pick out what topic/s you fancy to hear..a powerful and strong proof of the TRUE LIVING GOD.
please write to the following:
SHEPHERDS CHAPEL
P.O. BOX 416
GRAVETTE AR. 72736
USA
write your request for the list of tapes, then after receiving the list, please choose your topic , and write again for the tape you pick.
I personally appoligise for any hurt that i caused you, and here is my email..as i wish to have you as a friend.
You are a fine person to know, and again i am sorry i posted the rude and mean things ..as i was totally out of my league with you. But i now offer my friendship..(which is rare). So be honored lol.
Octokat1@cox.net
P.s. maybe you can teach me a few things..(hand shake!).
bye for now friend.
allen
[This message has been edited by allen, 08-15-2002]
[This message has been edited by allen, 08-15-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by John, posted 08-15-2002 12:37 AM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by John, posted 08-16-2002 8:37 AM You replied

     
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 13 of 27 (15487)
08-15-2002 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Big B
07-31-2002 9:54 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big B:
[B]I was just wondering what people's views on this were. Is supernatural a possible synonym for scientifically unproven? [/QUOTE]
[/B]
You know with the mind I have today in the context of the 80s I might have answered this question in the affirmative but the sociology for any of this science SEEMS not to have borne this out. CHop hop. I now understand and I really do mean by that word that i do not stand under this understading how not only a the more or less phenetist Humphries wrongly in my case asserted statistics where I was not ready to decide on Fisher/Wright but more generally how Boyd could IN HIS VERY OWN REALISM think that I was being religous or creationist WHEN I WAS TRYING TO WORK ON GOULD'S IDEA OF A NEW EVOLUTIOANRY THEORY EMERGING becuase his use of writing did something in a science that does not think but was unable, becasue they were not students having to trasit the electric typewriter to click and paste metaphysical anthropology contexts and could only grade work based on common sense starts that for this student at least had been aired on the phone for the perception that in an earlier generation was what counted itself as what qualifed in and of the good student. It is going to always bee a problem to explain to the NExt generation what the rotary phone did not do for me that people think digitization is doing. It is not. That it could. well it might but it is not niave then even if real.
This simple trip in the history of philosophy however is not religion and thus even on AD White's terms the new computer medium acutally casued exclusion of the very reading that Created Cornell. It is not Ironinc because the Rommance studies HAVE to be found on the other end of GOldwin Smith but that some Catholic English Prof's OFFIce is in the Sage Phil Dept IS ironic. One could percieve where the phone would ring but not when that is even now being couched cellularly wrongly again.
So No, the supernatural really is supernatural and is something that my perhaps be thought to be experienced on SUNDAY at Sage Chappel but certainly not on the Arts, Ag or Eng Quads. They are seperated but the induction is not fully explained if still this conduction will not work for the wire it flows flux on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Big B, posted 07-31-2002 9:54 PM Big B has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by allen, posted 08-15-2002 8:15 PM Brad McFall has not replied

  
allen
Guest


Message 14 of 27 (15495)
08-15-2002 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Brad McFall
08-15-2002 1:50 PM


Brad.
That was beautiful..and a little humerous to read..but in all a round
about way..you are very right in your post..not only are the old things regenerated as the new..i admitt old cellular is the means of the new groups who do come around with the dialer effect not withstanding the manual typing at hand..tho i do agree with you fully,
finally an adult answer. Quit right in that lost are the things of old covered by the new that compute the young of today generally a diagnosis of : what me worry sapping of the minds is melay to an extinguishing effect!.. lol. please dont get me wrong...but supernatural is just something we cannot in effect interact with..but yes supernatural is as it will be,but not as it would be in the minds of professors and graduates that hone the capture of the supernatural at the aspect of losing ones mental being notwithstanding a long saturday night at the bar..pink elephants as i suppose is the outcome of possible reflections of your own experiances as if on an angry ocean tossing to and fro...lol please dont get me wrong..but the supernatural does line in the cognitive. um er eh...oh yes..ahhhhh
ahummmmmm ....pardon me i have gas...as your post so generates its flux flo . get real..a supernatural effect is not the same as a supernatural quantum effect graduated by the humerousness that you expell flagulantly. good day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Brad McFall, posted 08-15-2002 1:50 PM Brad McFall has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by nator, posted 08-29-2002 10:47 AM You have not replied

     
John
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 27 (15519)
08-16-2002 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by allen
08-15-2002 8:11 AM


quote:
Originally posted by allen:
..so my DEAR FRIEND,(whom i now admire)..because i sincerely have begun to like your style..lol..you are a pure pleasure to write to. and i mean that with all my kindergarden learning..lol.
You have taught me one thing John...never step in with the bull,if you want to leave the arena with all your parts still intact!.

No offense but... fickle aren't you?
quote:
well..i will give you my email address, and i hope we can become real friends,as i have totally enjoyed your putting me streight.
Why not just answer the questions I have posed?
Enjoyed? Do you mean laughing yourself silly at my stupidity?
quote:
I have never come across any other
preacher or establishment that could prove word by word anything,
any question etc. that i could throw to them..

Why not just answer the questioned I have posed to you?
quote:
I personally appoligise for any hurt that i caused you, and here is my email..as i wish to have you as a friend. You are a fine person to know, and again i am sorry i posted the rude and mean things ..as i was totally out of my league with you. But i now offer my friendship..(which is rare). So be honored lol.
Frankly, you couldn't bully or ridicule your way with me so now you are resorting to flattery and appeal to my warm-cuddlies. I am not impressed.
quote:
Octokat1@cox.net
P.s. maybe you can teach me a few things..(hand shake!).

Why not just answer the questions I have posed?
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by allen, posted 08-15-2002 8:11 AM allen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by allen, posted 08-16-2002 10:39 AM John has not replied

  
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