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Author Topic:   Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 149 (146521)
10-01-2004 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Rei
10-01-2004 3:18 PM


You are very knowledgeable and sharp Rei.
Which is more likely:
a. The author contradicts himself in the very next chapter.
or
b. Some people may have interpreted Genesis 2 incorrectly.?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Rei, posted 10-01-2004 3:18 PM Rei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Rei, posted 10-01-2004 3:42 PM dpardo has not replied
 Message 48 by Rrhain, posted 10-02-2004 6:58 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 149 (146523)
10-01-2004 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
10-01-2004 3:22 PM


I understand your points Jar but I don't see the purpose of simply labeling it as erroneous when there is a reasonable explanation.
What is the value of your interpretation?
How does this benefit you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 10-01-2004 3:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 10-01-2004 3:51 PM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 149 (146524)
10-01-2004 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Rrhain
10-01-2004 4:27 AM


Rrhain writes:
"...But you never take anybody's word that something is inerrant. To do so means you've turned your brain off."
I assure you that I have not turned my brain off. I simply have not come across an apparent contradiction that I could not explain, yet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Rrhain, posted 10-01-2004 4:27 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Rrhain, posted 10-02-2004 7:01 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 149 (146582)
10-01-2004 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by PaulK
10-01-2004 5:37 PM


Hey PaulK!
I will try to get to your question later on today!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by PaulK, posted 10-01-2004 5:37 PM PaulK has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 149 (146593)
10-01-2004 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by arachnophilia
10-01-2004 6:15 PM


Hi Arachnophilia,
Arachnophilia writes:
"please do go back and read the rest of my post. i wrote it for a reason, and it does fit the text. i've been interested in this and studying this for quite some time. such a simple answer is almost insulting, especially when i stated that my original conclusion was the same and gave the reasons i had for changing it."
I apologize for the apparent insult.
I will reread your post and try to have an answer for you later on today as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by arachnophilia, posted 10-01-2004 6:15 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by arachnophilia, posted 10-01-2004 6:40 PM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 149 (146840)
10-02-2004 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by PaulK
10-01-2004 5:37 PM


Hi PaulK,
Genesis 2:18-22 says:
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
It is my assertion that when God stated:
"I will make him an help meet for him"
that God was talking about Eve.
You say:
"But first God creates animals and birds in an attempt to find a suitable helper."
Do you honestly think God created animals and birds (male and female) in an attempt to create a suitable helper for Adam rather than just create a female version of him first?
That seems to be what you're saying. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by PaulK, posted 10-01-2004 5:37 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Rrhain, posted 10-03-2004 4:54 AM dpardo has not replied
 Message 72 by PaulK, posted 10-03-2004 8:10 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 149 (146842)
10-02-2004 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by arachnophilia
10-01-2004 6:15 PM


Hi Arachnophilia,
I quoted Genesis 1:27 here:
27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Then I said:
"The verse above simply states that he created them."
to which you replied:
"yes. it does. at the same time. it says he created man and woman in the image of god."
It does not state that he created them at the same time. You are interpreting that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by arachnophilia, posted 10-01-2004 6:15 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by doctrbill, posted 10-02-2004 8:12 PM dpardo has replied
 Message 65 by arachnophilia, posted 10-03-2004 4:36 AM dpardo has not replied
 Message 68 by Rrhain, posted 10-03-2004 5:03 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 149 (146845)
10-02-2004 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Rrhain
10-02-2004 6:54 AM


Hi Rrhain,
Rrhain writes:
"You are absolutely right that Gen 1:27 simply says that humans were created and doesn't mention when they were created.
But to then insist that this somehow means that Genesis 1 doesn't mention when humans were created is to simply ignore all the other verses in the chapter."
I'm not sure I understand your argument here.
Genesis 1 does state that humans were created on the 6th day.
"Now some simple questions:
1) Are fowl and whales animals?
2) Did this event happen on the fifth day?"
1. No
2. Genesis 1 21-23 states the fowls and whales were created on the fifth day.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
and to your subsequent question regarding the creation of animals and man happening on the sixth day, my answer is: "yes".
Now, let's see what Genesis 2 says:
Genesis 2:18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
2:19: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
2:20: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Now, some simple questions:
6) Does not the above indicate that Adam, the very first human ever, was alone?"
Regarding the above quote, it indicates that, with reference to Eve not having been created yet, he was alone. But the animals had already been created.
Genesis 2:19 is where I see the apparent contradiction regarding the chronology of humans and animals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Rrhain, posted 10-02-2004 6:54 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Rrhain, posted 10-03-2004 5:32 AM dpardo has replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 149 (146846)
10-02-2004 8:22 PM


I apologize for ending the post abruptly.
I had created a longer post but, upon hitting the "preview" button, it prompted an error page.
I will try to continue momentarily.

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 149 (146847)
10-02-2004 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Rrhain
10-02-2004 6:54 AM


Let's look at Genesis 2:19:
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
If we had not already been given a chronology, it would be reasonable to assign one at this point. BUT, since we were already given one in Genesis 1, there is no logical reason to assume that we are being given a new one.
Genesis 2:19 is simply stating how he created the animals and the fowl of the air (again, this is consistent with the general-specific theory) and that he brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Rrhain, posted 10-02-2004 6:54 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Coragyps, posted 10-02-2004 10:22 PM dpardo has replied
 Message 71 by Rrhain, posted 10-03-2004 5:48 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 149 (146851)
10-02-2004 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by doctrbill
10-02-2004 8:12 PM


Hi Doctrbill,
Your interpretation of my posts has been noted.
Thank you for your response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by doctrbill, posted 10-02-2004 8:12 PM doctrbill has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 149 (146909)
10-03-2004 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Coragyps
10-02-2004 10:22 PM


Hi Coragyps.
Thank you for your input.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Coragyps, posted 10-02-2004 10:22 PM Coragyps has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 149 (147000)
10-03-2004 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Rrhain
10-03-2004 5:32 AM


Hi Rrhain,
I don't have time this morning to address all of your points but, perhaps I can use one of your examples to try to clarify the issue.
I will try to get to your other points later on today or tomorrow morning.
Rrhain writes:
"If I'm looking at my day-planner and I see that written on January 15 is an entry saying, "Dinner at Andre's," and then I find another entry on February 18 saying, "Dinner at Leona's," can we say that I had dinner at Leona's after I had it at Andre's? There is no direct statement in the February 18 entry mentioning January 15 or my previous dinner. And yet, nobody would claim "that's just a matter of interpretation" if it were claimed that my dinner at Leona's was after my dinner at Andre's."
One of the differences between your example and the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 accounts is that you have an actual date (February 18) for "Dinner at Leona's". In the Genesis 2 accounts, we are not given a date (or day) like in Genesis 1.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Rrhain, posted 10-03-2004 5:32 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Rrhain, posted 10-07-2004 3:53 AM dpardo has replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 149 (148099)
10-07-2004 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Rrhain
10-07-2004 3:53 AM


I believe we are in agreement about what Genesis 1 says.
It is Genesis 2 where we disagree.
My understanding of Genesis 2 is that the author does not always narrate chronologically but instead, shifts, at times, to detail some events.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Rrhain, posted 10-07-2004 3:53 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 4:39 AM dpardo has replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 149 (148662)
10-09-2004 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Rrhain
10-09-2004 4:39 AM


Hi Rrhain,
dpardo writes:
My understanding of Genesis 2 is that the author does not always narrate chronologically but instead, shifts, at times, to detail some events.
Rrhain writes:
And your justification of this is what, precisely?
My justification for this is that the author already gave us the chronology in Chapter 1.
Rrhain writes:
Are you seriously claiming that god has the attention span of a gnat? That he noticed that Adam was alone but was then immediately distracted by the need to create the animals? That the animals had nothing to do with the search for a helpmeet for Adam?
I am claiming that God did not create the animals in Genesis 2:19. The reason, IMO, for the following statement in Genesis 2:19:
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field..."
is to tell us that he formed them out of the ground.
Are you claiming that God made the animals in an attempt to find a helpmeet for Adam?
Rrhain writes:
If so, how do you reconcile this with the direct statement that there was no helpmeet to be found among the animals? If they weren't looking for one among the animals, why would they bother mentioning that one wasn't to be found?
The reason, IMO, for the following statement in Genesis 2:20:
"...but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."
is to inform us that the animals did have helpmeets.
Rrhain writes:
I'm still having a hard time believing you claimed birds and whales are not animals.
I apologize. I thought that was a trick question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 4:39 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 5:58 PM dpardo has not replied

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