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Author Topic:   Dating the Exodus
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3069 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 304 of 317 (148157)
10-07-2004 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Brian
10-07-2004 3:34 PM


Re: EXODUS DATE: 1453 BC
But the point is the inscription would never of been created without the victory to report.
I see you have computer access.
Caught me off guard.
WT
Edit:
Where are the inscriptions which report only defeats - my original point ?
This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 10-07-2004 03:07 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Brian, posted 10-07-2004 3:34 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Brian, posted 10-07-2004 5:05 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3069 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 306 of 317 (148166)
10-07-2004 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by PaulK
10-07-2004 4:24 AM


Re: EXODUS DATE: 1453 BC
Paulk writes:
If you judge others on previous statements and on their world view then please share the evidence that lead you to believe that those arcaologists who assing the destruction of Hazor to Joshua do so from a desire to deny the Bible rather than from acceptance of the Biblical claim that Joshua destroyed Hazor.
IOW, no archaeologist has an anti-Bible ax to grind. If they succeed in asserting Joshua was responsible and not D/B then the Bible is proven incorrect.
Message 219
From: Cambridge Ancient History, Third Edition, Vol.2, Part 2 [1975] Chapter VII "Archaeological Evidence" pages 331,332:
"One must not forget that the interpretations of these finds {in Palestine} has been and still is largely dependant on the school of biblical exegesis to which the excavator adheres."
This has been explained to you repeatedly and you have evaded the same reply everytime.
IOW, nobody is out to prove the Bible wrong - we/atheists are objective. Honest persons know that no such animal exists - everyone has an ax to grind.
I hope Brian will allow me to exempt him from this, but Paulk is really saying that atheists have no bias against the Bible. That their worldview has zero affect on their conclusions. Only a complete moron would believe that whopper.
Brian and I agreed a long time ago that our respective worldviews are based upon the evidence. That he is an atheist because of the evidence and I am a theist because of the evidence. We argue under these assumptions.
Lets reverse your argument.
How come you reject the conclusions of scholars who are of theist worldview ? Like Dr. Scott or Dr. Rutherford or Josh McDowell ?
Whatever your answer, then for the same reason, is why I reject the sources you accept.
For the record please remember that you brought up this stupid issue first.
You are arbitrarily ignoring the archaeology evidence I have posted.
You are asserting it not to be evidence based on your subjective "expertise".
The rules of debate say to support your claims with evidence - I have.
But when I do my opponents simply assert it not to be evidence hoping the anrgy at WT Admins will go along with this blatant fraud.
Whenever a theist proves and evidences his claims, when this is perceived the opponents simply assert contrary over and over and over.
IOW, any evidence which proves you wrong cannot be valid because you cannot be wrong.
This easy approach is only pursued because you cannot refute with evidence.
For anyone unfamiliar with the issue, here is the evidence which Paulk asserts to not even be evidence.
Message 219
From: Cambridge Ancient History/Chronology, page 62 [1962]
"As might be expected, the Mycenaean pottery of Hazor XIV is still Mycenaean IIIa. In the next level, Hazor XIII, we have Mycenaean IIIb.
Consequently, the city came to an end in the 13th century.
Of outstanding importance for the chronology of the period of the Judges is the fact that there is no subsequent Canaanite level in Hazor. Hence the Canaanite kingdom of Hazor which Barak fought against should be the city of Hazor XIII.
Now the war between Israel and Hazor in Barak's time presupposes a period during which the Egyptian control of Palestine had broken down. In the vicinity of the 13th century we probably have three such periods:
1) before Sethos I
2) between about 1250 and the eighth year of Rameses III, though during part of this interval Merneptah probably re-established Egyptian control;
3) after 1150.
Periods 1 and 3 are excluded by the presensce in Hazor XIII of Mycenaean IIIb.
Hence Barak is to be dated to the second half of the 13th century."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by PaulK, posted 10-07-2004 4:24 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by PaulK, posted 10-07-2004 6:17 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3069 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 309 of 317 (148201)
10-07-2004 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by PaulK
10-07-2004 6:17 PM


Re: EXODUS DATE: 1453 BC
Most atheists are quite happy to accept that the Bible is correct on many points
LOL !
If the destruction is due to Deborah and Barak then Joshua did not destroy Hazor and the Bible is in error
The Bible says Joshua destroyed Hazor.
The Bible says D/B destroyed Hazor again much later.
You only evade the two destructions because you want the Bible to be incorrect. The facts recorded in the Bible and archaeology confirm that both parties each destroyed Hazor as it was obviously re-built when D/B destroyed the Canaanite presence there for the final time.
Your position evades the Biblical record which anyone can verify for themself. You are doing exactly what you accused Rutherford of doing - asserting contrary to what we read in the Scriptures. You were proven wrong about that and now you are a glutton to be beat again.
If Joshua did destroy Hazor then Deborah and Barak did not and the Bible is still wrong.
Your atheist filter and bias is showing.
I know you believe the Bible is wrong - what else is new ?
Finkelstein and Silberman are the most biased atheists/Bible hating pseudo archaeologists the world has probably ever produced.
I don't know of anyone who takes them seriously.
Mainstream scholarship pays no attention to these secular poster boys.
Now I do not reject Scott, McDowell or Rutherford's opiniosn because they are theists. I reject them because of the poor quality of their arguments.
Yeah right. I believe you. Why would I doubt that you an atheist reject the said arguments not based upon worldview.
Like I said, I reject the sources you accept and agree with for the same reasons you reject the eminent scholars I mentioned.
This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 10-07-2004 06:14 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by PaulK, posted 10-07-2004 6:17 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by PaulK, posted 10-07-2004 7:29 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 314 by Brian, posted 10-08-2004 3:40 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3069 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 311 of 317 (148211)
10-07-2004 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by PaulK
10-07-2004 7:29 PM


Re: EXODUS DATE: 1453 BC
Lets assume archaeology shows only one.
The Bible shows the other.
If the Bible doesn't confirm archaeology then we know that archaeology cannot be trusted or seen reliable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by PaulK, posted 10-07-2004 7:29 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Amlodhi, posted 10-07-2004 10:55 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 313 by PaulK, posted 10-08-2004 3:24 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 315 by Brian, posted 10-08-2004 3:59 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

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