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Author | Topic: Existence of Noah's Ark | |||||||||||||||||||||||
tsig Member (Idle past 2929 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
Well, I do own a HVAC business, and happen to know a little about dissapation of heat with liquids. If water was exposed to the vacum of space with heat in it, before it could freeze it might boil off and lose its heat to space during that process. The boiling point of water lowers in a vacum. Once again you claim to be an HVAC tech. Have you ever worked on an absorbsion chiller unit? It uses vacum and heat to produce cold water.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Yes it can, just not as well as anything else, because it is the worst conductor.
Why is the dark side of the planet so cold then? Its not just due to lack of sun. Also why does it stay warmer at night if it is cloudy? Because the clouds block the heat from escaping into space. Think of the temperatures on the moon, front and back.There has to be some cooling effect. And thank you, at least you understand what I am trying to say.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I own a HVAc company, not just a tech.
I really don't work on absorbtion systems, as my company isn't that big yet. I also didn't get a chance to work on them with other companys, but I have worked on many buildings in Manhattan, with major cooling systems for computer rooms. Liebert machines. But this point you bring out, is what I am trying to say to you. Do you know why it operates in a vacum? Do you know why we pull a vacum on a system before charging it with freon? And technically it doesn't produce cold, you cannot produce cold, you can only remove heat. There is absolute zero, and then everything after that is heat. Cold is a reletive term to describe how you feel in certain tempuratures.
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Gary Inactive Member |
Good point. I have to think about this.
The atmosphere on Earth, not just the clouds specifically, does hold in heat at night, moderating the temperatures. So some heat escapes into space. I am no expert on this, but it could be that infrared light radiates from warm areas on the Earth, and the atmosphere absorbs this energy. Only some of the infrared light escapes through the atmosphere. Maybe someone who knows more about the subject than me could explain more accurately, if I am wrong. Now on the moon, there is no atmosphere to absorb the energy from the infrared light coming off the warm parts of the moon during the night. By the same logic as on Earth, infrared light is produced by the warm parts of the Moon. But without an atmosphere, the light just goes off into space. That effect might cool the dark side of the moon. This is just what I think would happen, I'm not saying this is backed up by anything, its just a hypothesis. It would be nice if someone else could confirm this or tell me I'm wrong. I'd do some research on it, but I have an ecology test to study for tommorow morning. Also: About it being warmer on cloudy nights: Maybe it is a little warmer on cloudy nights, but it also gets more humid, and the pressure drops a little bit. So sweat doesn't evaporate as fast, and you feel hotter. It might be a combination of a few different factors.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Arachnophilia responds to me:
quote: And again, you're being disingenuous. You admit you haven't been following the thread...have you considered that the source of your confusion is because you haven't been following the thread? I feel like John Kerry: You're jumping on a single phrase and ignoring the entire context in which it was made and then behaving as if you made a valid assessment of the meaning. When I said that the Bible doesn't describe a storm, I did not mean that a storm made absolutely no appearance. I meant that the event described was not a simple storm where, when it stops raining, the land gets dry in a few days. Instead, it talks about a flood. The storm described in the Bible is nothing but a device to get enough water on the ground to cause a flood. When the storm is over, the flood remains. The claim made by riVeRraT has shifted from a flood to a storm. He's behaving as if dumping enough water on a mountain through a rainstorm is equivalent to a flood that covers the mountain. Thus, as you can see, my comment about the Bible not talking about a storm. Noah didn't survive a terrible storm. He survived a flood. The flood came around because of a storm, yes, but the storm was just a device to get enough water to create a flood.
quote: Nor am I saying you are. Instead, riVeRraT is. He has committed the logical error of shifting the goalposts. This entire discussion was about a flood and now he's trying to get away with a storm as if having a great big bucket of water on top of a mountain peak pouring over it is equivalent to a flood of the mountain.
quote: But we know that their concept of the universe doesn't match reality. So what does that mean for those who claim a "global flood" was a reality? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1364 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
And again, you're being disingenuous. You admit you haven't been following the thread...have you considered that the source of your confusion is because you haven't been following the thread? yes, it probably is. that's what i meant.
When I said that the Bible doesn't describe a storm, I did not mean that a storm made absolutely no appearance. I meant that the event described was not a simple storm where, when it stops raining, the land gets dry in a few days. Instead, it talks about a flood. The storm described in the Bible is nothing but a device to get enough water on the ground to cause a flood. When the storm is over, the flood remains. The claim made by riVeRraT has shifted from a flood to a storm. He's behaving as if dumping enough water on a mountain through a rainstorm is equivalent to a flood that covers the mountain. Thus, as you can see, my comment about the Bible not talking about a storm. Noah didn't survive a terrible storm. He survived a flood. The flood came around because of a storm, yes, but the storm was just a device to get enough water to create a flood. oh, ok. i get your point. sorry for being an ass. i agree.
But we know that their concept of the universe doesn't match reality. So what does that mean for those who claim a "global flood" was a reality? precisely what i was trying to demonstrate. that, and that symmolic meaning is more important than the details and historical accuracy.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
riVeRraT responds to me:
quote: Then what keeps the water pressed up against the mountain rather than immediately draining into the valley? We're talking about a flood, not a storm. Did you try the experiment I asked you to perform?
quote: Indeed. My house still isn't flooded, though. To do that, you need to have water pressed up against the sides of the building. And the only way to do that is to have the water level of the entire surrounding area rise to that height. When you put a glass on a flat, level surface and pour water in the glass, it doesn't cling to just one side (and please, no silly comments about the "inside" of the glass.) Instead, the water level rises so that the entire inner wall of the glass is covered to the same height. What is keeping water pressed against the side of the building rather than running right off into the river basin?
quote: You're acting as if the river is the only place the water can flow. You keep forgetting that water flows. Remember your gutter example? If the gutters get clogged for whatever reason, the water FLOWS OVER THE EDGE OF THE GUTTER. And my house still isn't flooded. Did you try the experiment I asked you to perform?
quote: You'd have close to 109 cubic miles of water piling up. But there's only about 108 cubic miles of water to be had on the earth. And we can't use any of it because it's already at the lowest point...we need to put this flood water on top of the ocean water. Where did it come from? Where did it go?
quote: Incorrect. It's the other way around. You're the one that keeps thinking locally and you need to start thinking globally. What keeps the water pressed up against the side of the mountain in a flood of the mountain rather than draining away into the valley?
quote: Irrelevant. You're just pushing the question back one level. Eventually, the mountain range dissipates to the plains. What keeps the water pressed against the outside slopes of the mountains? Take a glass and place it on a flat, level surface. While you can certainly take a bit of water and pour it into the glass such that the interior surface is covered in water, how much water are you going to need to cover the exterior surface of the glass with water such that it remains submerged for 20 minutes after you're done doing whatever it is you are going to do with the water? Did you try the experiment I asked you to perform?
quote: Then the mountain isn't completely flooded and that is what you are claiming happened. If the highest part is sticking out of the water, then that highest part isn't flooded. Did you try the experiment I asked you to perform?
quote: But that's just it: It is topologically impossible. Did you try the experiment I asked you to perform? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What keeps the water pressed up against the side of the mountain in a flood of the mountain rather than draining away into the valley?
Its just amazing that you can't see what I am trying to say.More water, fo rthe time that it is raining. I am not talking about after the rain stops. Try your little experiment, but first make the mass 25% the surface area of the tub, then pour a thimble full of water and watch it run off. This would represent a regular rainfall amount.Now talk a small bucket and do the same, this would represent the rainfall amount I am talking about. For the period of time that it was raining, it would be flooded. And if you want to compare run-off rates to real life, you would have to make a scale time-clock to represent how fast it would run-off in full scale.
Then the mountain isn't completely flooded and that is what you are claiming happened. If the highest part is sticking out of the water, then that highest part isn't flooded.
But a t rainfall rate of 4" per hour, it would be wet, running-off, and flooded, and there-for covered in water, even if was only a 1/4" of water, it would be covered. I think I stated this about 4 times already, but through your logic you feel the need to keep asking me about this.Can you explain your thought processs that leads you to do this?
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 754 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Do you know why we pull a vacuum on a system before charging it with freon?
Two reasons: to remove (noncondensable) air that would lower the effectiveness of freon condensation and, more importantly, to remove any water that would make ice and plug things up. Nothing to do with the vacuum of space.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Good, now how does the water get out of the system?
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 754 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
The water leaves the system because you've reduced the applied pressure to below its vapor pressure AND because you have quite a large heat source - all that copper and such at room temperature - to supply the heat of vaporization that enables the change from liquid (or solid) water to vapor to occur. Even with that large of a mass of metal, how long do you hold a vacuum on the unit? Half an hour, perhaps, to be sure you've evaporated a quarter-teaspoon of water?
The problem isn't so much the water as the heat, RR. A single gram of water vapor in Noah's stratosphere gives off 540 calories of heat when it condenses to raindrops. That's enough to heat ten grams of water down below Noah's boat by 54 degrees C of nearly 100 degrees F. You just don't have a heat sink in the upper atmosphere to carry that sort of heat away on bigger than a one-hurricane scale.
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tsig Member (Idle past 2929 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
But this point you bring out, is what I am trying to say to you. Do you know why it operates in a vacum? Do you know why we pull a vacum on a system before charging it with freon? And technically it doesn't produce cold, you cannot produce cold, you can only remove heat. There is absolute zero, and then everything after that is heat. Cold is a reletive term to describe how you feel in certain tempuratures. It can operate in a vacum because the brine solution will boil at a lower temperature in a vacum, but you must always have a heat source, that heat source is the cold water coil. I said nothing about producing cold. I said cold water. I think 42 degree water will count as cold in the decidedly non-tech talk here. This mention of the definition of cold is a red herring to divert attention from the fact that your own trade disproves your "cooling in space' theory.
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tsig Member (Idle past 2929 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
Two reasons: to remove (noncondensable) air that would lower the effectiveness of freon condensation and, more importantly, to remove any water that would make ice and plug things up. Nothing to do with the vacuum of space you stole my answer!!
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Ok, now the ignorant question.
Why does hail fall from thunderstorms? And yes, I fully understand why water evoprates from a refrigeration system. I think its cool that you know too. You learn that in college, or are you in the field?
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Why does hail fall from thunderstorms? Because heat gets added to the system. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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