Who can be saved? A Christian perspective

This atheist, for one, will be supremely pissed off.You can bet that if I die and I find out that there's been a God that could have been fixing things and doing real work instead of sitting on his butt, well, it had better be a rib barbecue, because I'm gonna shove 'em bones and all right up his ass. There's real suffering in the world; good thing he's having a fuckin' cookout.I would be very, very worried if I were in your position - to believe that a God exists, but that this is the best he can do.God could explain himself, I guess. Maybe he's got a good reason. Nothing I've heard from people, though, even comes close.I should make it clear that I would be angry; not that I am now. I bear no anger towards that that does not exist.

Doesn't work like that. He who makes the positive assertion - that an entity exists - must prove. Not he who questions that assertion. What's friendly about the arrogant presumption of my reations? Moreover, what was unfriendly about my most? Jar made a mistake about how I would react; I merely corrected him. I do what I can. But then, nobody claims that I have infinite power over life and death, now do they? Who? Who got healed today by God? Which, by definition, must be the case. The existence of unameliorated suffering is not consistent with the nature of God as he has been defined. Irrelevant. The fact that you're doing ok in the UK doesn't change the fact that someone is starving to death in Ethiopia. God's blessings on you don't erase someone else's suffering. I'll say "that's a good start, but you couldn't have done any better? Show me why." Tell ya what. Keep your mouth shut about what atheists will or won't do, and I'll never have to talk to you again.But if you insist on insulting my beliefs, prepare to have the favor returned.

What times, specifically, are you referring to? When did this happen?Why are you trying to substantiate the reality of an entity with hypothetical situations? That's like if I tried to say that Superman existed, and that we knew it because he saved people."When?" you might ask. "For example," I reply, "you're falling off a building, and Superman swoops up to save you." "When did that happen?" you ask. "Well, it didn't," I reply. "It's hypothetical. But suppose it did!"

No. I'll be pissed off, like I said.

He was a great father, still is, and we keep in regular touch. You, in fact, are completely wrong. The reason I'm an atheist is not because I'm crazy or abused. The reason I'm an atheist is because I see no evidence of God's existence.

Right. Which means that if you disagree, it's up to you to prove it. Fuck if I know. I didn't start this tangent. Because it doesn't pay the rent. But your God has none of my limitations and all the powers I don't have. His responsibility is therefore greater. As great, in fact, as is power to intercede. I'm ameinable to being convinced. If God can convince me that he did what he could, I'll accept that.But nothing I've heard so far is convincing. Your only argument so far has been that I'm a bad person for even daring to ask. Blah blah blah. Irrelevant nonsense. You haven't addressed my point - suffering is inconsistent with a benevolent, all-powerful God."Benevolent" means that God doesn't want us to suffer. "All-powerful" means that there are no obstacles to his intervention, if he wills it. So, the presence of suffering means that God is not one of those two things, or not either of them. The presence of suffering is inconsistent with the existence of a God who wants us not to suffer and has all the power to make it happen. By definition, this is true. It's irrefutable. If I had God's power, I wouldn't have to. It would seem we were discussing atheism, via Jar's post.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that I want to be patronized in the way Jar's post was patronizing. No, I want legitimacy for my views on God, just like you do. I want theists to stop patronizing atheists. Every time I turn around, some theist is patting an atheist on the head and saying "that's nice, kid. Run along and let the adults talk." It grates.

Well, and likewise. I never mean to attack your beliefs, only your arguments, and only when I think they're wrong.It's fine for you to believe in God, and I would never presume to belittle someone for doing so. Though I have belittled those who advance faulty logic to try to convince others. I hope the distinction is clear.