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Author Topic:   Who can be saved? A Christian perspective
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 460 (148623)
10-09-2004 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by jar
10-06-2004 1:22 AM


quote:
35: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Is there anything in there that deals with what they believe, what they profess, what they say?


All that which he is saying is symbolic for all those that have Christ in them. It does not mean those who didnt murder. Or those who loved there kids. It is those who took Jesus Christ into there hearts. Not Buddha, not Joseph Smith. You are taking this verse out of context for 2 reasons. One is that the Sheep are the saved, who are in Christ, and the unsaved are the goats who are departed into hell. And two, the interpretation you are using is contradicting Christs entire teachings. Which is Christ is the way, the truth and the life. NO man cometh unto the father except by me. I repeat NO man. Christ also teaches in Matthew 7:21-23 something about I never knew you. What his teaching is that many will profess love for Christ, or profess that we DID follow your teachings, we DID love one another. But they will not be saved. What does that tell you about people who dwell in other faiths, athiesm, other beliefs which contradict the gospel?

And finally, Christ uses the same type of symbolic words in relation to those who gave him food, water to drink, and love, in Matthew 11:28-30. Which you can read for yourself if you wish. Eternity depends on it so dont wait until its too late.

quote:
41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Where does that mention sin, belief, or anything other than "42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not."


Again, Christ is using minor-symbolic words to describe those who werent 'in Christ'. You are forgetting the first verse in that paragraph. They are sent to hell, and afterwards speaks about what they have done. This is the unsaved of all generations and times. And on this issue IMO there can be no debate. Those who arent in Christ will be the ones that have not gaven food, visited not, didnt take him in. The meaning of the verses, are very plain IMO. Unless theres a willingness on the readers part. To interpret Gods words so that every religion is saved. Every human is special unto God. Because mother geisha loves us all right?

quote:
And not what most think of as sin, but rather a failure to follow the two Great Commandments.

Love GOD and Love others as you love yourself


Love God = Love Christ. It does not mean love Vishnu. So i hope you understand that loving God. Means loving Jesus Christ ONLY. It does not mean those who believe that the earth is God and loved it dearly will be saved. Again, quite obvious. And you also say love others as yourself. What about the sexually immoral? or those who love one another but are living in a new-age world and belive the earth is God? We cannot take that single verse and say do whatever you want except for these 2 things. If that were the case, God would have simply wrote that and nothing more. But he doesnt. The New Testament is filled with daily christian living. And you can be sure that following the law and loving a God does not mean salvation


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by jar, posted 10-06-2004 1:22 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 10-09-2004 10:48 AM almeyda has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 107 of 460 (148635)
10-09-2004 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by mike the wiz
10-08-2004 4:44 PM


What about all the times God has intervened to stop things - with you being ignorant of it?[/quote]

Let's assume that this is really happeneing; that God is intervening and we don't know it.

My question to you is this:

What about all the times where God obviously does NOT intervene?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by mike the wiz, posted 10-08-2004 4:44 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 108 of 460 (148636)
10-09-2004 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by mike the wiz
10-08-2004 5:59 PM


Doesn't work like that. He who makes the positive assertion - that an entity exists - must prove. Not he who questions that assertion.

quote:
It was you who asserted his none-existence though.

That's not a positive assertion, mike.

Is it a positive assertion to say, "There is no evidence that invisible pink unicorns exist."?

No, a positive claim is, "Invisible pink unicorns DO exist." It is then up to this claimant to provide evidence for this positive assertion.

The idea that there is no evidence for the existence of invisible pink unicorns is the default, just like it is the default to not accept that the Great Galactic Goat made the universe, that fairies live at the end of my garden, and that aliens are regularly abducting humans into their spaceships to conduct anal probes.

I swear, this must be the 10th time this has been explained to you. You are smarter than this.

quote:
Mankind could end all suffering tomorrow

Really? Someone out there has a cure for AIDS, let's say, and they are actually keeping it to themselves?

quote:
God however - does provide food for me each day - you cannot only count the starving people

The problem is, mike, that you don't want to count the starving people at all in your assessment of the situation.

quote:
- like Christ said - the last shall be first.

That's a vague promise regarding the afterlife. Why doesn't God reverse their life of hunger and suffering NOW? Why must they live an entire life of hunger and disease when God could fix is instantly?

quote:
And infact Christ still heals today - we have documented miracles that even doctors agree on.

Which miracles were those? Please be specific; names, dates, etc..

quote:
Nor do sufferings remove reality - that God is!

That may be true, but it does erase the notion that God cares about human suffering.

This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-09-2004 07:51 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by mike the wiz, posted 10-08-2004 5:59 PM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by mike the wiz, posted 10-16-2004 1:29 PM nator has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 109 of 460 (148650)
10-09-2004 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by almeyda
10-09-2004 6:13 AM


Almeyda

All I can say is "Are you totally incapable of reading?"

Matthew 25 is one of the clearest statements in the whole Bible. Jesus is not making some symbolic speach that does not mean what it says. It means exactly what it says.

YOU can interpret differently, but you have to at least acknowledge that is what you are doing.

IMHO, what you are doing is exclusion. You are saying, "We have this little club and we're something special. No one that doesn't know the password and have the secret decoder ring can join."

I do not think that is the case. I believe that GOD is inclusion not exclusion. Matthew 25 is the directions on how to follow the Great Commandment. It tells you how to love GOD and how to love your fellow man. It clearly says that how you treat others is also how you treat GOD.

The big point is that it says not helping others, simply because they need it, for no other reason than that they need your help, is an affront to GOD.

As I expected, you cannot show where belief, sin or professing faith appear in Matthew 25. And that's for a reason, it just is not there.

But as I have said before, please feel free to explain salvation as you understand it.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by almeyda, posted 10-09-2004 6:13 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by almeyda, posted 10-09-2004 1:26 PM jar has responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 460 (148673)
10-09-2004 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by jar
10-09-2004 10:48 AM


Your living in a fantasy land. Because you are not taking the Bible seriously. Which i understand because youve already mentioned plenty of times you dont take it as history or literally. ANYWAY. Like i said before, you are taking this 1 verse out of the entire Bible. In particularly Jesus Christ. The whole New Testament is written for daily christian living until the second coming. You have rejected everything Christ has spoken on in relation to Christ being the only way, salvation for those who are in Christ, seperation forever to those who are without etc. You are turning a blind eye to all these things, in order to fit in your new-age theory. That God loves us all even as sinners, which yes he does. But mercy is only found with Jesus Christ. All this is basic christian doctrine. You claiming to be a christian should have no problem with this teaching.

quote:
IMHO, what you are doing is exclusion. You are saying, "We have this little club and we're something special. No one that doesn't know the password and have the secret decoder ring can join."

It is a club actually. But no its not small. Its the biggest religion in the world. You must understand what Christ teaches in his words. I am the way, the truth and the life, no man commeth unto the father but by me. And your use of symbolic words for our belief is very relevant too.

'Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go thereat

Because narrow is the gate, and difficult is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it'

So what does that tell you? There is a lock and a passward. But we have that password. And he is the God of the New Testament.

quote:
I do not think that is the case. I believe that GOD is inclusion not exclusion. Matthew 25 is the directions on how to follow the Great Commandment. It tells you how to love GOD and how to love your fellow man. It clearly says that how you treat others is also how you treat GOD.

You criticise my explanation of the verse, i would like to hear your interpretation of who are the goats who are sent into hell? Are they just the people that were really bad and killed?, those who werent in a religion? Because what i think is that the goats are the unsaved of all generations and times.

'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter the into the kingdom of heave: but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity'

If you point out that God saying he that doeth the will of the father means what you think, your wrong. Because the entire New Testament is filled with daily christian living. And theres alot more to it then love the law and love a God.

quote:
As I expected, you cannot show where belief, sin or professing faith appear in Matthew 25. And that's for a reason, it just is not there.

You are not giving Jesus Christ food, or taking him into your home when you worship Buddha, or Vishnu. The verse talks about the saved who are in Christ, and the unsaved who are not in Christ. It is as simple as that. You are contradicting Christs teaching when you interpret his words in such a way as yours. Again, i would like to here your explaination of just who are those who are the "Depart from me, ye cursed into everlastingfire, prepared for the devil and his angels... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

If you point out that 'the righteous' means anyone who is nice, and loves there kids. You would be wrong.

quote:
But as I have said before, please feel free to explain salvation as you understand it.

First of all, im a fundamentalist. I believe in divine creation, verbal inspiration and inerrancy of scripture, virgin birth of Christ, his deity, substitutionary atonement, bodily resurection, physical return, and a literal heaven and hell.

SALVATION...

The term implies deliverance. First, the christian has been saved from the guilt and penalty of sin (Ephesians 2:5,8). Second, the christian is being saved from the habit and dominion of sin in this life (Galatians 2:19,20). Lastly, when Christ returns, the christian will be saved from all the physical results of sin, of Gods curse on the world, and the judgement on sin

Reconciliation...

Reconciliation is the act whereby God on the basis of Christs death, has eliminated the hostility between Himself and humanity, making possible a complete and maturing fellowship. The hostility was caused by sin, and was eliminated by the cross (2 Corinthians 5:19).

Repentance...

Repentance is necessary for salvation, but repentance alone does not save. It means to change ones mind about sin in such a way as to result in a change of action. Repentance is produced in the life by means of the word of God, a chastisement to the lord (Rev 3:19), belief of the truth, and a new vision of Jesus Christs character.

CHRIST-ian living...

A christian should live a holy life that reflects the nature of God, who saved him (1 Peter 1:16). A christian should apply biblical principals and avoid what is 1) against a biblical standard of purity, 2) against a biblical prohibition, 3) offensive to the conscience 4) failure to follow the example of Christ (1 Peter 2:21). And of course many more.

Union with Christ...

The uniqueness of the christian experience results from the union of Christ and the believer. In this relationship, the believer was crucified, dead, buried, made alive, raised, seated, & glorified. On the basis of this union, the christian believers life can be opened with four key words in Romans 6:6(know),11(reckon),13(yield),17(obey)

The plan of salvation according to God is very clear yet at the same time demands your entire life to fully understand Gods will. There is also the forgiveness of sins, the security of the believer, prayer, and many more.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 10-09-2004 10:48 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 10-09-2004 8:28 PM almeyda has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 111 of 460 (148730)
10-09-2004 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by almeyda
10-09-2004 1:26 PM


Well, you covered a lot of ground so this will be a longer response than I like. Please bare with me.

'Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go thereat

Because narrow is the gate, and difficult is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it'

That, to me, means just what it says. The vast majority of folk will never really understand the way and so will fail at it. They will be like the goats, surprised that they did not do as GOD wished, surprised to find they are being damned.

i would like to hear your interpretation of who are the goats who are sent into hell? Are they just the people that were really bad and killed?, those who werent in a religion?

I imagine those who were really bad, who committed murder or rape as an example, may have a pretty hard time being saved. At a minimum, they will have some big time explaining to do.

Those who weren't in a religion will likely have a far easier time getting in than any Christian. Afterall, as it says throughout the New Testament, the Christians will be held to stricter standards than those who have not become Christians.

Look at Matthew 25 again. Who were the goats? They were close friends, followers of Jesus, Christians or proto-christians, people that believed in him, worshipped him, followed him, and let him down. They did not love others as they loved themselves. They would have done anything for Jesus, but never understood that you cannot do something for GOD, you are incapable of doing anything for GOD. You can only do things for your fellow man.

The goats will be Christians. They will be good, GOD-fearing, church going, praying machine Christians. They will be folk like Gene Scott, Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson, Bob Larson, Billy Sunday, Hal Lindsey, Dr. Dino, John Morris, Walt Brown and the like. It will be chest thumping, brow beating, Christians that are bigots, that support the Defence of Marriage act, that do not just do what GOD asked folk to do, love others. He didn't say love Christians, he didn't say profess GOD, he said "Just do it".

Let's examine some of your quotes.

almeyda writes:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter the into the kingdom of heave{sic}: but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity'

Let's start with the first one, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter the into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven"

That's pretty clear. It says that those who profess belief, who say Lord, Lord, who are christians, may not get in. Of those, of the christians who show up, it will depend on what they did during their lives. If they followed the two Great Commandments, if they did the will of the Father, then they're in. And doing the will of the Father is doing unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Look at the next quote you provided.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"

Again, he is talking to his followers, to Christians. These are not just any Christians, but ones that prophesied in his name, cast out devils and have done many wonderful works. Sounds like your typical televangelist, doesn't it. Sounds like someone who founded a Christian College, who has a 80,000 volume library of Christian books, who puts out videos and has his own tv show, doesn't it?

And GOD's response is "Not here brother. Get on your way!"

almeyda writes:

You are not giving Jesus Christ food, or taking him into your home when you worship Buddha, or Vishnu.

Not necessarily. But when you feed a Buddhist, take him into your home, get to know and love him, listen to what he can teach you, you are Loving GOD.

Again, i would like to here your explaination of just who are those who are the "Depart from me, ye cursed into everlastingfire, prepared for the devil and his angels... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

They are, among others, Christians that never understood what GOD's message was. They are Christians who believed they could get by without doing what GOD asked us to do, Love GOD and to love others as we love ourselves.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by almeyda, posted 10-09-2004 1:26 PM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-10-2004 2:38 AM jar has responded
 Message 118 by almeyda, posted 10-11-2004 8:08 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 112 of 460 (148753)
10-10-2004 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
10-09-2004 8:28 PM


Gosh, Jar, you DO have a pretty good defense of your favorite scripture. I am impressed! One minor detail. This scripture refers to the state of the world AFTER the church has been taken up. The ones left are the bretheren, Jewish believers, and the nations, all other non christian people. Just a footnote.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 10-09-2004 8:28 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 1:01 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 113 of 460 (148895)
10-10-2004 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Thugpreacha
10-10-2004 2:38 AM


That's a good subject for another thread because I think that a very good case can be made that that is also a poor interpretation.

In addition, there is absolutely no indication in Matthew 25 that any less than all of the world is brought in for judgement.

31: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Jesus says, "And before him shall be gathered all nations:". All Nations.

There is no indication that some were cleared out beforehand. In addition, look at how the goats are described. When he tells them to depart, they respond "44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?"

"Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?"

That is not the response of a non-follower. That is the response of a Christian, one who at the least considered himself to be a follower of Christ.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-10-2004 2:38 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-10-2004 3:36 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 114 of 460 (148930)
10-10-2004 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by jar
10-10-2004 1:01 PM


Dispensationalism unplugged
Like I said, jar--this is one possible interpretation. To understand it, you have to understand dispensationalism.
Greg Herrick writes:

The dispensation of grace begins in Acts 2 and carries through to Revelation 19:21. The Church is the main revelation of this period and is made up of all those who are baptized by the Holy Spirit. The Church is to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth and rely on the indwelling Spirit to overcome sin. The ultimate end of the church age is apostasy (Tim.4:1-3) and judgment in the great tribulation (after the rapture of the church). Since the revelation extends to the whole world, the whole world will experience God’s judgment (Rev.3:10). The glory of God is seen primarily in His grace to undeserving sinners through the loving sacrificial death of His Son and His wisdom in devising such a plan to include everyone in his mercy (Romans 11:33).

The Jews, whom were the First Chosen would be the Last to receive Gods mercy...although they would eventually see what they had been blinded to. The Church, which includes all true believers today, will be taken away from the Earth before the Judgement. Jesus is talking to His Disciples, which are not part of the Church. They are part of the little flock...which gets into an entire discussion on dispensational theology ...but not now.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 1:01 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 3:40 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 115 of 460 (148932)
10-10-2004 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Thugpreacha
10-10-2004 3:36 PM


Re: Dispensationalism unplugged
Like I said, start a topic on Revelation because many would say that Revelations is ancient history


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-10-2004 3:36 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-10-2004 3:53 PM jar has responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3886
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 116 of 460 (148934)
10-10-2004 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by jar
10-10-2004 3:40 PM


Re: Book of Revelation
There is the The Book of Revelation, Hallucination, and Heresy topic. But maybe that isn't the place for the line of discussion you wish to pursue.

Adminnemooseus


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 3:40 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 4:06 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 117 of 460 (148935)
10-10-2004 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Adminnemooseus
10-10-2004 3:53 PM


Re: Book of Revelation
We can give it a try there.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-10-2004 3:53 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 460 (149085)
10-11-2004 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
10-09-2004 8:28 PM


quote:
That, to me, means just what it says. The vast majority of folk will never really understand the way and so will fail at it. They will be like the goats, surprised that they did not do as GOD wished, surprised to find they are being damned.

No thats not what it means. Your changing Christs words again. What that verse means is that men will pursue destinys in their lives. Some will consider themselves athiestic, or independent. And will follow their own instincts. Others on the other hand, will find truth and discover the reality of life. Not just a belief that will make you 'happy', but a fact of life. We are created, and we are accountable for what we do at the end of our lives. With this option. One takes the 'harder' journey. The path of righteousness. A chance to be redeemed, when confronted by a just, and holy God.

So basically, that verse is that some will choose the Lords way, which ends in eternal life, while the other, is eternal seperation. This world as it nears the times of the Anti-Christ are becoming very anti-god, & anti-christian. In its philosophy of what life is about, and how man decides his destiny is very much a part of society now. The Bible says in Psalms 9:17

"The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God"

quote:
I imagine those who were really bad, who committed murder or rape as an example, may have a pretty hard time being saved. At a minimum, they will have some big time explaining to do.

So your saying, 'this' is as far as He should go. This is bad, but thats not that bad. One person says go this far, another says this far. A nazi christian, says that blacks wont be allowed. How far do you want God to go? If you want him to get rid of evil, the Bible says we got a wicked heart, he has to deal with us. The judgement of the nations, is not about personal problems with us as individuals. The judgement is of sin. And who can stand? The Bible CLEARLY teaches that those not in Christ, will not be saved.

quote:
Those who weren't in a religion will likely have a far easier time getting in than any Christian. Afterall, as it says throughout the New Testament, the Christians will be held to stricter standards than those who have not become Christians.

"And i saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those books, according to their works

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" Revelation 20:12-15

IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. These books contain the record of every unbeliever. The unbelivers will not have there names written in the book of life. Because they were not sons of God. If any of these unbelivers loved there kids, and didnt murder. They will not go into heaven.

"And what accord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an unbeliever?" 2 Corinthians 6:15

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" 2 Corinthians 6:16

There is one God. And it is the God of the New Testament.

quote:
Look at Matthew 25 again. Who were the goats? They were close friends, followers of Jesus, Christians or proto-christians, people that believed in him, worshipped him, followed him, and let him down. They did not love others as they loved themselves. They would have done anything for Jesus, but never understood that you cannot do something for GOD, you are incapable of doing anything for GOD. You can only do things for your fellow man.

Christ says in verses 42-43, For i was hungered and ye gave me no meat, I was thirsty and ye gave me no drink etc, then as they plead with him after wasting their chance away, will plead that they did good, and yes we did love you. But salvation is lost, and Christ says And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteousness into life eternal.

Righteousness is not planting trees, or saving the animals. It is being a son of the living God. And fearing the Lord, and all his commandments. Because fearing God is the only way that a man can realise the brevity of life, the judgement of sin. And the authority of the creator.

"As it is appointed unto men to die, but after this, the judgement" Hebrews 9:27

quote:
The goats will be Christians. They will be good, GOD-fearing, church going, praying machine Christians. They will be folk like Gene Scott, Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson, Bob Larson, Billy Sunday, Hal Lindsey, Dr. Dino, John Morris, Walt Brown and the like. It will be chest thumping, brow beating, Christians that are bigots, that support the Defence of Marriage act, that do not just do what GOD asked folk to do, love others. He didn't say love Christians, he didn't say profess GOD, he said "Just do it".

I have no idea if those are saved or not, weather they are is if they have followed the fundamentals of christianity. The fundamentals of the doctine of christianity. That Christ is Lord and Savior of all ages, and there is only one God. Any if you are not worshipping and bowing to Jesus Christ, then you are following a false God. Weather those people will be found righteousness, God only knows.

But again your thoroughly confused about what Christ is about, and what he teaches. Because his entire words are meant for daily christian living. Not to doubt Christ, doubt the Bible, doubt his words, doubt the authority, doubt his deity. His given us his Revelation. And i hope you can find the time to read the verses in Revelation 22:18-19

quote:
That's pretty clear. It says that those who profess belief, who say Lord, Lord, who are christians, may not get in. Of those, of the christians who show up, it will depend on what they did during their lives. If they followed the two Great Commandments, if they did the will of the Father, then they're in. And doing the will of the Father is doing unto others as you would have others do unto you.

More new-age fantasy. You believe that living in harmony of the world, your fellow man, and the creation, makes you righteous?. Your seriously wrong, and seriously confused about all christian doctrine. What you have is the truth in your hands. But you doubt everything in the Bible, all Gods teachings and daily christian living and think that God is mother geisha and teaches us that if we live as gods, and respect the world, then we will be together with a god, and we will head to nirvana, all of us. But not those murdered, because there bad, nor pedaphiles. The sexually immoral will be saved because exploring your sexuality further enhances you god-ness. And it goes on and on and on and on. Im just guessing you think like that. Because thats the vibe i get when i see your interpretations of scripture

quote:
Not necessarily. But when you feed a Buddhist, take him into your home, get to know and love him, listen to what he can teach you, you are Loving GOD.

That is the stupidest thing ive heard so far. You are being a fellow humanitarian im sure, but you are not giving glory to God by doing that. Yes you should treat your fellow man with love, but this is simply because a christian has to personify the personality of the nature of God. This is the only way a christian can show righteousness. But it does not mean that buddhist is saved. He is living under the guidence of an athiest. Your job is to save him, and turn him to the living God. And then you will glorify the Lords name. The root meaning of evangelist, is "to bring good tidings" or "to bring the gospel message".

Just more of the duties and responsibility we have been given then just love a God, love the creation, and love the fellow man.

NEW TESTAMENT = DAILY CHRIST-ian LIVING

quote:
They are, among others, Christians that never understood what GOD's message was. They are Christians who believed they could get by without doing what GOD asked us to do, Love GOD and to love others as we love ourselves.

Its quite hilarious that every time God speaks about sending people to hell, that you assume that only christians will be sent there. Sinners however will be accepted no worries, except those who murdered, because there 'too' bad. Anyway, Christians love and glorify the Lord, on a daily basis, they pray and have a personal relationship with God. Jesus Christ has forgiven there sins and if they are geniune, and repent, eternal life is granted thrugh faith and obedience.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness, and abbundance of wickedness, and recieve with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" James 1:21-22

Those who sin, while in Christ. Can still be redeemed, because they put there faith in the Lord on a daily basis, and are forgiven through the blood of the lamb. There will be christians in hell. Because they werent christian, but rather lived with the nations and men that worshipped the doctrines and beliefs of corruptible man. And never repented of their sins, nor worshipped the living God. And so will suffer the consequences of there own instincts. Complete seperation from the face of the Lord.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 10-09-2004 8:28 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by jar, posted 10-11-2004 10:06 AM almeyda has responded
 Message 120 by Brian, posted 10-11-2004 11:04 AM almeyda has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 119 of 460 (149091)
10-11-2004 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by almeyda
10-11-2004 8:08 AM


Well, I think you've done a pretty good job of outlining what you believe.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by almeyda, posted 10-11-2004 8:08 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by almeyda, posted 10-12-2004 3:41 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3154 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 120 of 460 (149100)
10-11-2004 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by almeyda
10-11-2004 8:08 AM


Oxymoron Alert
Hi Al,

A nazi christian

What on God's green Earth is that?

Isn't 'Nazi Christian' an oxymoron, a bit like 'Creation Science'?

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by almeyda, posted 10-11-2004 8:08 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 10-11-2004 11:11 AM Brian has responded
 Message 137 by almeyda, posted 10-12-2004 3:38 AM Brian has responded
 Message 145 by nator, posted 10-12-2004 11:23 AM Brian has not yet responded

    
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