Who can be saved? A Christian perspective

Actually, in the Biblical sense, damnation and hell and granted a life everafter. But I'd rather not get too deeply in this thread into greater definition of those two subjects. Perhaps we can get into what saved or damnation means infuture discussions.For now, can we all simply accept that by saved I am simply refering to the common Christian conception without going into specific definitions of the terms? I do agree that they will be two interesting threads though.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I have no problem when others present what they believe the Christian point of view or teachings related to salvation are. For example, Almeyda presented what he believes the critera will be. It's possible to descibe the conditions without defining Christian.What I don't want to do is get into "What a true Christian is" or what the definitions of salvation or damnation are. The former simply degenterates into "Is Too!, Is Not!" while the latter two are meat enough for a thread on their own.I hope more Christians will contribute what they believe the criteria is and why they support their beliefs.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Brian, I initiall lay out my thoughts related to that question in Message 7 and Message 10.Later there is a series of postswith Almeyda beginning at Message 19,with Phatboy beginning at Message 31 andwith Mike-the-wiz beginning at Message 43.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Not exactly.First, I am a Christian. That means that I believe that Jesus lived, preached, was crucified, died, was buried, was resurected on the third day and rose into heaven.Second, I believe that the purpose of all of the was for the forgiveness of sins.So there are two givens, that Christ lived and died and that he died that sins might be forgiven.So the first question I'd ask you, using the two beliefs as I have laid them out, would have to be, "Who did Christ die for?"

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Okay. I happen to agree and that is a key believe of all of the Creedal Christian Churches.Christ died for all mankind, that includes believers as well as non-believers. The gift is freely given and unconditional.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

John is an interesting book and beloved by conserrvative Christians. But in many ways it gives an entirely different picture than the other cannoniacal Gospels. If you look specificly at John 3, where that quote comes from, you can see what I'm talking about.It begins: So one of the educated leaders of the church comes to Jesus and says that it looks like he is the real stuff and speaking from GOD.Jesus then goes straight to denouncing the structure as it exists, and anouncing a new structure.The particular line you are quoting is John 3:16. But too often it is taken out of context and both what comes before it and after it is neglected.Look at: and what follows: In particular, look at 19:21. Here, the message returns once again to behaviour, to actions, rather than simply acknowledgement or belief. Again, it seems to me to be saying that actions speak louder than words. It's saying that what you do evidences your belief, not what you say.I do not see John 3 and Matthew 25 as being in conflict. Instead, I believe they amplify each other. I cannot imagine a loving GOD that would force anyone to live eternally. What a hell that would be. Instead, I would imagine that the individual would be given enough information to make an informed decision and that GOD would grant the individual's wish.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Not here but if we ever get a thread on what Heaven will be like, or not like, just remind me about it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I don't believe that I do. But I also say that folk shouldn't pull John 3:16 out of the context of what went before it and what comes after. They need to be seen as a unit. IMHO, when you look at the whole passage it, like Matthew 25, is going into a description of how to 'believe in him'.In addition, John is a book written during the franchise phase of the fledgling Christian Church. It was written in part to promote the seperation between Jews and Christians and to help create an identity for Christians. As such, it is the most exclusionary of all the Gospels.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You good folk are pulling this way OT. Let's try to stick to the issue of who can be saved.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yup. As my Mom used to say, "Quit sticking your sister's pigtails in the inkwell."

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What does that have to do with the topic?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

See above!

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You're going to have to do better than that. If you have some point to make then spit it out. But off the wall comments that seem to have nothing to do with the subject simply won't cut it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, I have presented my view. Now if you have something to contribute, please feel free to do so. But so far you've said nothing. Once again, what does this have to do with the thread? I think you must have a really hard time reading or understanding even basic concepts. Whether or not I have been "baptised with the Holy Spirit" has nothing to do with the issue of who can be saved.If you believe that it does, then step up to the plate and explain YOUR position. That is what this thread is about, an opportunity for people to express their opinions and perspective.But the thread is nearing its end so if you plan on contributing anything worthwhile, now is the time to do so.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

And in that whole bunch of rhetoric, where was there anything that has anything to do with your mention of Baptism in the Holy Spirit?In addition, I don't think that you have any understanding of what i've been saying.Let me try one more time.People are saved by Grace. Period. It has NOTHING to do with their beliefs, it is not conditional, it is not tied to profession. It was a gift freely given.It was not given to Christians, or Jews. It was given to mankind. Everyone.But there is one potential gottcha. That gottcha is your behavior. You can screw things up. You can throw away the gift freely given.And what behavior is it that is needed? Not all that much really, Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. That's all. Do your best. Do little things. Help others. Help the lady in line behind you unload her grocery cart. Help someone reach packages on the top shelves. Stop and carry a turtle across the road. Take the time to tell stories to little kids.It's really that simple.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion