Does god have free will?

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this is one of my major problems with fundamentalism. god is only who they say he is. who are they to define god?

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We can be assured that God does not go against His own Nature! Just like He won't break His promises. "even if He wanted?" Yes, even if He wanted...He sticks to His Nature & Character. I'll see if I can scare of some scripture on this. Old Testament is a good place to start. I'm not saying that God doesn't have FREE WILL, but His Free Will is Holy & Moral. Not a Free will of SIN...breaking Promises, doing evil etc., Hope that helps..."...in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began..."(Titus 1:2)This message has been edited by asciikerr, 10-05-2004 12:33 AM

God is THEE Just KING of Kings, and Lord of Lords.A JUST KING would NEVER violate his own decrees or laws set forth, an unjustice king wouldn't care. God will NOT violate any of His own Laws or Commandments, Jesus Christ having lived a Sinless life is proof of that. So God does have a Free Will, and He "Chooses" to excercise it in a Holy and Righteous way. In your logic, God would have to violate His own Character to show He has Free Will. That is like saying a person who "CHOOSES" to be drug-free person has no free-will because he chose not to violate his morals, ethics or body by accepting a poison into his own body. Your running in circles and your argument is weak!"Um, what if the Drug-Free person really wanted too!?"That is why He "MUST" & will punish Sinner's, that is why there is a Hell, because it would be "unjust" and against His righteous and divine nature if they went unpunished for the sins they have committed. So just like any righteous KING, He chooses not to violate His own Decrees set forth. That is why Christians can stake their lives on God, He keeps His promises to Israel and those whom trust Him. We have been promised that He will never forsake us, and so we can bank on it. That is why we rejoice, why we have strength in Him, because He is not a man that He should Lie. He is God Almighty, Holy-Holy-Holy & Righteous! Hope that helps...Cheers!This message has been edited by asciikerr, 10-05-2004 03:10 AM

Um, I couldn't help but notice an ENTIRE discussion on GOD without any Scriptural Support for any of it. Odd...you would think if you wanted to know about God you'd read the Bible for yourself, but I know that is just way out of the question.If you read the Old Testament, you will find that God would often punish His chosen people using others, such as Babylon. Now, you ask yourself, is that evil? God uses another nation to destroy and lay waste to His own people. God also wiped out the world with a flood? Is that evil? You need to quit looking at Good or Evil and start looking at Him as a JUDGE! He is the Final Authority, He Judges and He also Executes. Good, Bad or indifferent...He "Chooses" to Punish those that violate His Commandments. He ordered Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice...Evil? Abraham didn't think so. He fried Sodom & Gommorah for their Sins, Evil? Certainly not...Just God passing Judgement according to His Righteous Holy Standards.The Ten Commandments, if you violate a single one...then your going to Hell. Even if you have only told a single white lie in your life, guess what, your Guilty! God punishing you, good, bad? I'd say He's is JUST. Try reading at least the Old Testament, God is Wrathful and doesn't spare the rod.2 Samuel 6:6-8
"And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. Then the anger of the LORD was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God. And David became angry because of the LORD's outbreak against Uzzah..."Uzzah here, put his hand on the Ark of the Covenant because it almost fell from the Cart. He was essentially keeping it from faling...Good initiative huh!? Well, according to Levitical Law...that Ark was supposed to be hand-carried by priests, not placed on a Cart. They violated God's Law. King David of course was upset, He seen Uzzah's good intentions and still couldn't get over God's Swift "Justice."Any Questions?

I am indeed a new baby Christian Still...came onto the Lord just 19 months ago. I have been reading the Bible for answers since. I think finding answers to your questions using the Bible would be a great focus of study for me. Who knows, you might be surprised in what the Bible contains, I know I was.If you have the time for throwing questions my way, I have the dedication in seeking out answers on any subject.Cheers!

Hey Phatboy,Thanks for the info, always good to find more believers out there, especially in forums where your not too sure who's - who. Even if they don't believe in God, they can't deny that the Bible does hold all of the answers to their questions; Love, Marriage, Sex, etc., I have read through just about all the self-help books out there, including those on philosophy. They all fall short in one place or another, but the Bible continues to go above & beyond all those with answers so obvious that it just makes plain sense. Something we need in this day an age. One example would be the Biblical view on adultery and how that destroys a marriage, although 3000yrs old it still holds its weight even today!That is my website, I add to it when time allows and according to all that I have learned while reading, studying and researching the claims made in the Bible. Much of it is for those who are the most critical of the Bible, usually the same people who have never really sat down to read it or study its awesome knowledge that has sustained us for over 2000yrs. God's Word is that powerful, it shouldn't just be overlooked because of what others say.Thanks again, I will try to post later at work. Cheers!

Hey Lam,I was reading this last night and thought of you, thought you might like these passages that reflect a little bit on God's Will and His form of Justice. The people here committed many abominations in the Lord's House, they were heavily into idoletry. Here God is choosing not to listen to their cries, even when He can plainly hear them. Do tell me what you think of it.Ezekiel 7:27
"...I will do to them according to their way, And according to what they deserve I will judge them; Then they shall know that I am the LORD!"Ezekiel 8:18
"...Therefore I also will act in fury. My eye will not spare nor will I have pity; and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them."In this passage, the Lord sends a guy to mark the forheads of those who show true repentance and are remorseful. Those not having this mark will of course been slayed. Just FYI, Prophecy also tells us that those who have given their heart to Jesus also receive a Mark from God(Rev 7:24; 9:4; 14:1). In much the same manner, those not marked (unbelievers)to show they follow God's way will also suffer.Ezekiel 9:4-6
and the LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it."
To the others He said in my hearing, "Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.Questions?

Well, I'm a big fan of quoting the Bible with verses and scripture to support my stand on matters. If I can't find it in the Bible, then I don't say its in there.How'bout you Mr. Knight, you seem to have doubts and even deny the answers contained therein. What question(s) have you been unable to answer? I can only think of one that wouldn't be answered directly, otherwise if it impacts your life and how you live...its in there! Why do you deny it?

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It's usually been my experience that strict adherence to the Bible results in an exceptionally unhealthy attitude towards sex, if not love and marriage as well.

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I'm not too sure what kind of experience that is, if anything the Bible is full of great and wonderful things concerning Marriage. It answers questions like why Man & Women are at each others throats, what God's purpose for our marriage is, how love and sex play a vital role in marriage and so much more. I think those that follow this strict adherence don't really understand what it says. This could be a separate topic all together, or we could hit some of the finer points or questions. You could read some of the stuff I've wrote on the matter and tell me what you think, or we can discuss it on a new thread.I'm down for discussion on marriage.

I understand you have problems with the stories (Noah, Parting of the Red Sea etc.), that was the biggest reason for me not to believe in what the Bible said. It was a constant stumbling block, I didn't even want to pickup the Bible because of those stories, it was all hogwash & rubbish. Why not try finding answers to questions you have pertaining to living a life more abundantly with joy, peace and tranquility as God intended?

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Since I know most of it is rubbish - how do I work out what is even true?

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So why not focus your questions on what matters most to you? Rather than keep getting hung up on the stories, which also prevented me from reading it for years on end...now I kick myself in da'@rse almost daily for not reading reading it sooner. What have you got to lose except for more time living with unanswered questions and perhaps even having your soul tormented eternally. Its usually pride that keeps people from reading the Bible, somehow they believe that makes them weak. Its usually not asking that causes problems, if they never ask..nobody will ever tell them. Ask and I'll make every effort to find your answer.

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Can I borrow your telepathic helmet? I'll make a killing in Vegas.

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If this is really where you want to focus your questions, then sure go ahead.just make sure to polish it before returning it.

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But I have read the bible it's more seem to make less sense each time.

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A good way to go about this is to ask your question, I will provide you with the scripture and verses to support the answer. I won't tell you the answer, you read it for yourself and then lemme know if that makes sense. That way you don't feel that I've fed you the answer or that is how I "interpreted" the answer for you. I tried reading the Bible once, looking for loopholes & stuff and it really made no sense. I think it was too much 19th century, didn't really understand much of what was said...it was pretty much the last time I tried reading it, up until March of Last Year. Now everytime I read it...Whoa! Seems like I've wasted a greater portion of my life by not looking into it sooner. Now I make the most of my remaining years here."Happy is the man who finds wisdom, And the man who gains understanding" -- Proverbs 3:13

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I guess what I'm really asking is what was gods purpose for creating everything?

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I think the King James Version says it best;
Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."He created us & all things for His pleasure, this is also stated again in: Colossians 1:16
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."Evil has to do much with Free-Will, like this Topical Threat.
In Genesis, as God created things He would say "And it was Good" to show satisfaction in His creation. It was because of "the fall of man" (Adam/Eve & Apple) that we have pain, suffering, hunger, death etc., Lets look at how things were before. Even before the Fall, Adam still had to work, but what made it "Paradise" is the peace and joy he had in knowing and having fellowship with God. So even paradise back then required yard work. But when your with the one you love, doesn't really matter what your doing...Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.Later God gave Adam a helper comparable to him (Eve) she would ultimately complete him and they were joined together as Husband and Wife. In Gen 2:25 speaks of them both being naked and were not ashamed. This is also the innocense they shared in their love for one another. When both were naked and in love without Evil, there was nothing to be ashamed about.Genesis 3 explains how God passed judgement in several ways:
:16 "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception. In pain you shall bring forth children. You desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.So here we see that women now endure the pain of being pregnant, and the pain suffered at labor during conception. Also, the word used for "desire" that you shall have for your husband is teshuquh. That means "to seek control." So now the women has pain during labor and seeks to control her husband. At the same time, the husbands desire is now to rule over the women, where before it was equal between the two. Yes, both men & women were created as equals in God's eyes.What about that Paradise and Yardwork? Genesis 3:17-20
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, "You shall not eat of it':"Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground,For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."That and he also drove them out of Paradise to fend for themselves, so everything was picture perfect as God Intended for us from the beginning. We had paradise, We were married to our best friend and equal and we had fellowship with God. After the Fall man was kicked out of paradise, God no longer had fellowship with man, husband and wife now seek to have their own way, and we have diseases, deaths, pain & suffering etc. So all this mess in the world is not from what God intended, but a product of man's inability to follow God's command. *whew* Sorry for the long post, but lemme know if that answers your question..if not I could focus and pinpoint a specific example etc.,

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However, if Adam and Eve didn’t posess the knowledge of good and evil, then they did not know that disobeying God was a good thing or a bad thing, it was just a thing. So if God punished them for something that they didn’t know was wrong, God was unjustified in His punishment. God told them not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which, when a person has no idea what good and bad are, equates to saying something along the lines of blah blah blah.

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God certainly gave them free reign over all dominion and over every type of food except for the Tree of Knowledge. He made it clear that when they did eat of it they would die. Eve, being a woman that you say knew no good or evil did understand simple instructions as she repeated them to the serpent. Genesis 3:2-3
And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, "You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die."' Genesis 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."So in any case, they were certainly aware of what things would happen but certainly not to the extent of what God did. Just as 1.6 mentioned, our ways are not God's ways and vice versa. Even when Jesus was being nailed on the Cross, He prayed for who refused to accept Jesus because it was apparent they were clueless in that entire ordeal.Luke 23:34
Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."

I'd say your are implying the wrong conclusion here...

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This is scary, as it implies that these persons would not know the difference between right and wrong if there were no bible to guide them. Try to picture Al Quaida and why they feel justified in beheading American/Brittish/S Korean 'infidels'...

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Did you know that lusting after another women while your married is adultery? I that basic common knowledge!? Most people realize or know better than to look at another when they are in the company of their wife. But did you know that Jesus considers that adultery? Matthew 5:27-28
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.Most people probably wouldn't pick up on this, even though "most" would know what is morally right or wrong, we would read the Bible to know what it is God expects of us. Because I love God, read the Bible so that I may know how He would want me to conduct myself before others and live according to His Will.
2 Birds with One Stone: By obeying God I know that I please Him by my conduct in life and I know He wants the best for me. So in pleasing Him, I live the healthy abundant joyful life He would want me to have. This requires to be selfless, when your selfish..then pleasing yourself is not always best for you. But I'm sure you already knew that..

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Personaly, if I were to choose a religion, I would not choose one that would have me be a bing created by another on a whim.

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God really has nothing to do w/Religion, that is just

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God made us, and this universe, for his plesure?

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Heaven is all about singing songs of praise and worship to God, heaven is only for those that don't mind that sort of thing. Spending our eternity with He who offered Himself as a sacrifice in our place. So, not only does He want our worship for Him, but He also layed down His life for us.

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He invinted satan, by proxy, he invented evil. If god snaped his fingers he could make all those things disapere. But it seems he enjoys this morbid little game of "see who burns". I personaly find it stupid and childish considering that he already knows the outcome anyway.

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He gave the angels Free-Will, and Satan of course wanted to be higher than God(Ezekiel 28:14-17). So even if God knows the choices you'll already make, would it have been better that you were never born? God probably doesn't think so, I'm sure He'd rather have you go through it all, because in His eyes...He still gets to love you none the less.

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Ill look past the more sexist statements in your previus post

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Not sure about any sexist statements made.

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Huricanse, earthquakes, all of these seem in tune with an arbitrary world indifrent to morality more than the will of some god. If they are the will of a supreme being then that being is surely a cruel and sadistic one.

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Prophecy fortells of the increase in Earthquakes, much like Birth-Pangs before God is ready to rap it up. So if you ever study the history of earthquakes, you will notice that they now happen more often, at greater strength & longer. Just like when a women is due for labor(Matthew 24:7-8). Cruel or Sadistic, I'm not sure..He is the Judge, who am I to judge Him? I do knw that "All things work together for the good to those who love God" (Romans 8:28).