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Author Topic:   Linguistic Pet Peeves
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 1 of 164 (150459)
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


OK, I agree that crashfrog's post on the usefulness of evolutionary theory being the reason why it is accepted was a very good post, but I have one quibble:
It isn't: "The proof is in the pudding."
It's: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
"The proof is in the pudding" makes it sound like we're going to find the bullet that can prove who the killer is. Eww.
Other peeves:
"I could care less." Really? How much less could you care? It's: "I could not care less."
"Alot." What is this word? Did you mean "a lot"? If you wanted to make it more intensive, you'd say "a whole lot" and there needs to be a hole for the "whole."
Newspaper style that drops the comma before the final "and" in a list. That comma is there in order to make sure you realize that the "and" is the terminator of the list, not a conjunction between two items that function as a single unit in a list: "Bring bread and water, salt and pepper, and fork and knife."
The replacement of "fewer" with "less." "Less" is singular. "Fewer" is plural. It isn't: "Less calories." It's: "Fewer calories."
The replacement of "among" with "between." "Between" is for pairs. "Among" is for more than two.
Anybody else? What other anguished English (thank you, Richard Lederer) do you find? I don't mean tiny, common errors like confusing their, there, and they're or particular turns of phrase you don't like (a friend simply does not like the word "hunker.") I mean where the structure is simply wrong and yet people commonly make the error (thus giving it legitimacy and eventually turning it into accepted usage.)

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Replies to this message:
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 Message 6 by purpledawn, posted 10-17-2004 9:56 AM Rrhain has replied
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 10-17-2004 12:00 PM Rrhain has not replied
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CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 2 of 164 (150460)
10-17-2004 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


This is not really the same thing but.....
People always bring up the story of King Canute trying to turn the tide as an example of madness/pride/vainity. By doing so they entirely miss the point of the story.
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-17-2004 06:01 AM

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 3 of 164 (150465)
10-17-2004 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


"a whole nother"
"Those are red apple's."
"prolly"
"And I was like, 'wow!'"

This message is a reply to:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 4 of 164 (150466)
10-17-2004 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


It hasn`t crept into Aussie lingo yet, but I find a real teeth-grinder (is that good English? :-))in the expression 'my bad'. My bad what? Bad humour? Bad English? Bad breath?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 5 of 164 (150467)
10-17-2004 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


It has to be "evolutionism" that does it for me.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 6 of 164 (150472)
10-17-2004 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


I have noticed lately the use of "an" before a vowel or vowel sound has been used incorrectly. Example: I went to an university for an interview.
I've noticed it a lot lately in printed books and correspondence. I was starting to wonder if they had changed the rules.
quote:
Newspaper style that drops the comma before the final "and" in a list. That comma is there in order to make sure you realize that the "and" is the terminator of the list, not a conjunction between two items that function as a single unit in a list: "Bring bread and water, salt and pepper, and fork and knife."
Thank you, thank you, and thank you!
Now that individuals in the workforce have PC's, people write any way they want.
I'm a secretary by trade.
Don't forget the apostophe after acronyms (PCs should be PC's), numbers (two 4's), letters, and words discussed as words (too many and's) when showing plurality.
Phone numbers have a hypen between the number groups not a period.
The prefix "non" does not need a hypen after it every time it is used. Use a hypen when the root word begins with a capital letter.
The non-Christian explained in a nonagressive manner that noncompliance with the rules can also aggravate non-EvC administrators.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Rrhain, posted 10-17-2004 6:46 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Rrhain, posted 10-17-2004 8:34 PM purpledawn has replied
 Message 17 by Tony650, posted 10-18-2004 4:14 AM purpledawn has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 7 of 164 (150490)
10-17-2004 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


I hate comma overuse. I blame leigons of English teachers who said "don't worry about the comma rules; just put a comma where you'd naturally pause."
Lame!

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 8 of 164 (150504)
10-17-2004 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


Eats, Shoots and Leaves
I enjoyed this little punctuation manual a lot.
It has climbed the best seller lists which is surprising for such a manual but this one is great fun to read.

This message is a reply to:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 9 of 164 (150553)
10-17-2004 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by NosyNed
10-17-2004 1:32 PM


Re: Eats, Shoots and Leaves
Ned, should that be 'eats,roots,shoots, and leaves'? :-P

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 10 of 164 (150554)
10-17-2004 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by purpledawn
10-17-2004 9:56 AM


purpledawn writes:
quote:
Don't forget the apostophe after acronyms (PCs should be PC's), numbers (two 4's), letters, and words discussed as words (too many and's) when showing plurality.
Not quite, at least according to the MLA. You do not use apostrophes for acronyms or numbers. You do use it to form plurals of lowercase letters ("p's and q's"). Capitalized letters do not need them (though some style guides say to use an apostrophe for capital letters, too).
It's: "The 60s," not "The 60's."
When referring to words as words, you not only use the apostrophe but also italicize it (but not the apostrophe-s) or put it in quotes (including the apostrophe-s).
It's: "Too many and's" or "Too many 'and's'."
On a related note, another peeve is "who's" for "whose."

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 11 of 164 (150558)
10-17-2004 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 8:34 PM


Wow the "World Book Desk Reference Set Grammar and Style Guide (1985)" has the apostrophe the way I showed you. No wonder people can't type it the same. What year is the MLA?
How about your for you're.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Rrhain, posted 10-17-2004 8:34 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Rrhain, posted 10-17-2004 9:42 PM purpledawn has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 12 of 164 (150564)
10-17-2004 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by purpledawn
10-17-2004 9:03 PM


purpledawn responds to me:
quote:
What year is the MLA?
I don't have it in front of me, but I remember the style guide for my thesis being pointed about it. My Turabian from 1969, 1982 states that the plurals of numerals is without an apostrophe. While it says to use an apostrophe-s for acronyms with periods ("B.A.'s") and for those capital letters that would be confusing if not ("As" as a plural might be confused for the word "As"), it doesn't directly state what to do with acronyms that don't have them.
My Handbook of Technical Writing from 1993 can't seem to make up its mind:
The apostrophe (') is used to show possession, to mark the omission of letters, and sometimes to indicate the plural of arabic numbers, letters, and acronyms. Do not confuse the apostrophe used to show the plural with the apostrophe used to show possession.
Examples:
The entry required five 7's in the appropriate columns. (The apostrophe is ued here to indicate the plural, not possession.)
But it then goes on to state a rule which renders the example they gave wrong:
Do not use an apostrophe to indicate the plural of numbers and letters unless confusion would result without one.
Examples:
5s, 30s, two 100s, seven i's
So which is it? Do you say "7's" or "7s"?
Regarding words as words, it goes the "apostrophe-s and italicize" route:
An apostrophe and an s may be added to show the plural of a word as a word. (The word itself is underlined, or italicized, to call attention to its use.)
Example:
There were five and's in his first sentence.
I note that it does not mention italicizing the apostrophe-s, but it does it in the text. In fact, one could say that the state rule as written indicates that you only italicize the word, not the apostrophe-s.
I'm willing to state that this is one of those dichotomy of style guides.
quote:
How about your for you're.
Well, that's on the level of confusing their, there, and they're. It's a problem, but it isn't usually a question of the person just not knowing any better. Even I find my fingers have gotten away from my brain and I look back and see that I've mixed them up. I'm usually happy enough to let it go.
Now a big question is, it it "ones" or "one's"? The general rule is that possessive pronouns do not take an apostrophe: "Hers" not "her's." That's why "its" doesn't have an apostrophe.
Personally, I say the possessive of "one" is "one's" because "ones" looks too much like a plural: "Make up one's mind," not "Make up ones mind." It seems to me that the clarification I keep seeing with regard to using apostrophes is "unless it would be confusing not to use it."

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 13 of 164 (150570)
10-17-2004 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 9:42 PM


Sounds like I need to get a new style guide and see if they made up their mind.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
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Tony650
Member (Idle past 4032 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 14 of 164 (150627)
10-18-2004 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
10-17-2004 6:46 AM


I'm hardly a grammatical genius, myself, but yes, some of those do get to me.
Rrhain writes:
"I could care less." Really? How much less could you care? It's: "I could not care less."
Yup, that one gets me, too. Sure I know what they mean, but argh! Personally, I don't use "could not" either; I say, "I couldn't care less." Yeah I know; minor quibble.
Rrhain writes:
"Alot." What is this word? Did you mean "a lot"?
I also see that one quite alot (sorry, I couldn't resist ). It makes me wonder if people are just slack in hitting their space bar or if they actually mean to spell it that way. Sometimes it reminds me of eighth-grade French class, as I instinctively want to pronounce it "ah-loh."
I'm not sure what to add but one that comes to mind is the possessive form of "it." My understanding is that, if there is an apostrophe, it is always read as "it is." For example, "It's beauty was enchanting" is grammatically incorrect as, technically, it would read as "It is beauty was enchanting." The correct form would be "Its beauty was enchanting."
Of course, some things are fun to use simply because they are so grammatically wrong. I recall a guy in high school, for example, who frequently said, "Does I gotta?" and yet another who enjoyed saying, "I'm doin' me some book-learnin'."
I'm just as guilty, of course. Whenever I hear someone use a double-negative, I admonish them with, "Don't never use no double-negatives." I then point out that mine is exempt because, technically, it's a triple-negative.

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Tony650
Member (Idle past 4032 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 15 of 164 (150632)
10-18-2004 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Nighttrain
10-17-2004 9:17 AM


Nighttrain writes:
It hasn`t crept into Aussie lingo yet, but I find a real teeth-grinder (is that good English? :-))in the expression 'my bad'. My bad what? Bad humour? Bad English? Bad breath?
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that, in this context, "bad" is supposed to be a noun, not an adjective. In other words, "My bad" = "My fault," "My mistake," "My error," etc.
Yes, it's terrible grammar, but I think that's what it's supposed to mean.

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Replies to this message:
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