More Christians in prison? May be not.

I have heard several times here at EVC that there are more Christians in prison as a percentage of the population than atheists. I did a little investigation and while I don't fully trust either of these websites I think there are some valid points made.This site is the one which talks about the 0.209% of prisoners being atheists Page Not Found - HolySmoke! .
There is another website which is a rebuttal of these statistics Homepage - adherents .The first website doesn’t have much to say except that 0.209% of prisoners reported being atheist in 1997 while 8 — 16% of the population is atheist. I expect that this is where the statistic originated.The second site indicates that some of those numbers may be a bit misreported. They say that about 9.5% of the population is atheist/agnostic/nonreligious, which is consistent with the numbers above but the prison data has approximately 20% of the prison population not saying anything about their religious affiliation. Should these people be counted as nonreligious? Does it seem reasonable that people with strong religious convictions would be more likely to answer a question about their beliefs than someone who was ambivalent? It seems to me likely that you would find more atheists in that nonreporting populous than religious people.

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from Homepage - adherents

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In the federal prisoner statistics, a full 20% of the respondents either answered "none" or provided no response to the question on religious affiliation. Based on response patterns to similar questions on nationwide surveys, it is likely that all or nearly all of these persons would be in the "nonreligious" category (or the "atheists" category, to use the terminology from the atheist web page itself). Even without adding the ".209%" of the population that specifically identified themselves as atheists, the segment of the prison population which self-identifies as non-religious is approximately twice as large as found in the general population. (the bold text was on the webpage)

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The webpage has more information but in the interest of brevity I won’t detail all of it.I don’t doubt that people with religious affiliations commit crimes at the same rate as nonreligious/atheists. I’m just not convinced that they are more likely to be involved in crime. If someone has better sources please provide them. moved by the Queen

I think you have a very good point there. Now I think we need to see all the available published material on this.The interesting number to me is what percentage are None

You cannot be forgiven unless you have first committed a crime. Maybe there's a certain group of folks that feel a very strong need to be absolved. And maybe the drive to confess may also play into the equation. Or maybe just certain kinds of people are more likely to get caught. I doubt this has anything to do with regional colloquialisms though.Peace. Ab.

There is another complicating factor. Where do the figures for society as a whole come from ? And if as is likely they also include a number that of no identiifed religion, how does that figure compare ?With any if these comparisons it is important to compare like with like so far as is possible. I think that more data is needed to reach a firm conclusion

Atheists aren't just people who lack religion, they're people who lack a belief in God.There's a whole lot of Americans that believe in God but say they're not religious. I think it's a mistake to conflate the words "nonreligious" and "atheist."But yes, I'd like to see some better statistics, too.

To complicate matters further, here's what one J.P. Holding said about this (on http://www.tektonics.org/spinney01.html), btw answering a very interesting article from Jacob Spinney (see http://www.jacobspinney.com/tomshort.htm):Here we go again, with another Skeptic citing stats about atheists being a small part of the prison population. I'll correct that again: As it happens prison inmates profess faiths for many reasons other than true belief: 1) It permits special visits. 2) It often allows certain priviliges, including breaks from normal work schedules, or the ability to "stand out" in a crowd of people who dress and live the same every day. 3) The religious buildings have AIR CONDITIONING. 4) When filling out forms, most don't know they can leave the question of religion blank. 5) The religious buildings have AIR CONDITIONING. 6) The religious buildings have AIR CONDITIONING. Actually most "theist" inmates are for all intents and purposes deists in orientation.

One of the other problems is that the two sets of statistics are from two different sources, so comparison is dubious, more so than for statistics in general.The 20% 'no answer' is the margin of error at best, especially if there are circumstances that would make an inmate reluctant to declare a faith.I have seen this before on another board, and my final take on it after much discussion, is that the numbers that profess to be christian are the basically the same inside and outside the prison system, certainly within the margins of error for both sets of statistics.What you can say is that there certainly is no visible or marked reduction in prison population that would be due to a higher moral code such as christians tend to claim.To me this is a refutation of any claim to better morals, but then I believe that morals are driven more by social conventions and basic reason than by faith.Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I agree completely. And while I think the statistics may not be revealing I think that RAZD has the right idea (which I'm sure you will agree with) when he says: Since this statistic is often brought up to counter the erroneous claim by Christians that we would all be better off if the laws were all based on Christianity (insert your favorite flavor here), if all people were Christian, and so on, I think that it would be just as useful to say something to the effect of, "There is no difference between the numbers of Christians and non-Christians in prison clearly being Christian doesn't make you less likely to commit a crime".Like RAZD it has been my experience with people I have met that their adherence to the law is typically not driven by the punishment factor but rather what falls in line with their own personal moral code. Since I find that atheists/nonreligious people seem to have a more balanced moral code since it comes from self reflection than simply from some arbitrary interpretation of some ancient book I would be more likely to believe that they would behave more equitably toward their fellow man in most situations. A case in point are the numerous discussions going on about homosexuality and marriage. You merely have to look at which side is looking for equality to see who is on the higher moral ground (at least that is my opinion).

The statistics are unclear - this much is true.However, I would predict a lower atheist prison population based on two other statistics:1. Education correlates negatively with prison population.
2. Atheism correlates positively with education.

And then we have the phenomenon known as "Jailhouse Conversions."
I am a volunteer at a Youth Dentention facility. I see many repeat offenders at the young ages of 16,17. These kids have families that often have had Uncles in prison, Dads in prison, often a majority of the family in fact. Jack is right in that atheists are better educated. If I ask a college kid about Jesus, they go off on a rant proclaiming that "more wars have been fought in the name of God than virtually any other cause"...and that the Jesus myth of the Gospels was fabricated by a politically motivated Church/State ruling class who wished to opiate the masses. When I ask a young uneducated urban youth about Jesus, they want to pray and reach out to Him. I remind them of a scripture in Corinthians: This sits very well with them. While I am not discouraging education as a means of improving their world view and circumstances in life, I encourage them by reminding them that they are much better off relating to God and allowing Him to raise them up than they are attempting to raise up by themselves. They simply lack the morality to accompany the power which they have and are not afraid to use. This power is birthed in the anger and the curse of a whole class of people. BTW, will Wiz and a few of the Christians here pray for these youth? Thanks...I DO believe in the power of prayer.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-22-2004 04:24 AM

You take a bunch of high school drop outs and tell them that they cannot acheive anything through their own efforts and you're proud of this.Fucking hell.

Now hold it a minute, Mr. Jack! You have not dealt with juveniles such as this have you? I am one of the More effective of the volunteers that pass through those locked doors. These kids need reprogrammed! They have nothing but the warped values that their incarcerated families have given them...as well as the gangs that they were in. I DO encourage them to focus on studies and education, but they first have to see themselves through a perfect forgiving Father rather than a judgmental crackhead or ex con. There are many stories of young men who have gone on to finish High School and get honest jobs that we have on file at YFC. I beg you to know the field that I know before judging me on my methods.