Darwin- would he have changed his theory?

Which is a probability predicated on a number of erroneous assumptions. As it turns out:

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Functional sequences are not so rare and isolated. Experiments show that roughly 1 in 10^11 of all random-sequence proteins have ATP-binding activity [Keefe and Szostak 2001], and theoretical work by Yockey [1992, 326-330] shows that, at this density, all functional sequences are connected by single amino acid changes.

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So, actually, the odds are pretty good that you'll hit something functional as you crawl, randomly, through the protein space. Furthermore:

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Denton [1998, 276] wrote, "One of the most surprising discoveries which has arisen from DNA sequencing has been the remarkable finding that the genomes of all organisms are clustered very close together in a tiny region of DNA sequence space forming a tree of related sequences that can all be interconverted via a series of tiny incremental natural steps." Meyer cites an older work of Denton [1986] without alerting readers to Denton's changed view. Denton now criticizes intelligent design advocates for ignoring the overwhelming evidence [Denton 1999].

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The fact that all organisms have proteins so close to each other, so clustered in the protein space, is a pretty good indication that they're all decendants of one common ancestor.(from CB150: Functional genetic sequences changing)

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS! In my earlier post, this was the point that I was trying to convey. Discussions no longer were about Darwin's theory but headed for the primordial soup. This is why I was asking about peoples knowledge of Darwins theories. And again I am not trying to be a smart ass.
Thanks again!

Ok. Good, you learned how to use the paragraph. Ok. Patiently waiting.

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He's not dead. He's electroencephalographically challenged.

Meow, hissssss!BTW, this only applies to Physics.This message has been edited by SirPimpsalot, 10-22-2004 06:09 AM

I don't have any idea what this means, to be honest........please put this into laymen's terms.But one thing that does jump out at me is that 10 to the power of 11, while not as bad as 10 to the hundreth power, isn't exactly good odds either........and that's just to form ONE protein molecule, correct? I agree.........but I think this fact hurts spontaneous generation theorists, as it shows that there weren't a plethora of of microbes spontaneously generating on early Earth.

Don't know what to tell ya.........but some of the more convincing evidence the man had was that Plato stated that in Atlantis they mined a natural alloy of gold and copper called "orichalcon"......and the only place on Earth where orichalcon is mined.......which is also the only continent west of Greece (like Plato said Atlantis was).......and the only area in the world that matches Plato's geopraphical description of Atlantis is the Alto Plano region of South America. This is very compelling evidence that none of the opponent's of the guy's theory spoke against..........In any case, regardless of whether or not civilization was around during the times of the glacial meltings, that doesn't change the fact that most peoples of the world lived near bodies of water at the time......and that the flooding caused by the glacial melts were a world-wide phenomonon. The stories of the floods could have certainly lived on through oral tradition. I'm suprised this hasn't been identified as Noah's flood before.......But, hey, you might wanna try searhing for "Alto Plano" or "orichalcon"........or maybe a combination of one of those with "Atlantis".

Please use the reply button on the post you are actually replying to.

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natural alloy of gold and copper called "orichalcon"

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Forgive my lack of knowledge on this subject -1) I always assumed that an alloy was man-made?2) We have a sample of this - because we must do if we can say that it was gold and copper?Web searches reveal ideas of what people thought this metal was, I see no evidence of it's actual existance.

We both know this is nothing in geographical terms........especially when you consider that the following 3.5 BILLION years of evolution couldn't produce anything more complex than a sponge of jelly fish. The DNA of the organism would have to have certain info encoded on it that was placed there just at random.........like how to duplicate itself, how to metabolize........it's like a book writing itself.Maybe there wasn't just one combo of protein molecules that would have gotten the job done, but it's certainly one of a short list.........wouldn't you agree? We have no reason to think that amino acids have natural affinities which favor the creation of life.......and, even if they did, that can't be just a coincidence. Either fact, whichever proves to be true, speaks of intelligent design. If lipids are organic, and therefore made by life, I don't see how this aids the theory of life springing from non-life. This is true, but materialists do, and for all intents and purposes, in this day and age, evolution and materialism are practically synonyms.

We've already had admins complaining that this is off-topic so I won't try to discuss the matter here.I will just note that searching on Google for the combination of "Atlantis" and "Alto Plano" turned up postings on Graham Hancock's forum and no other relevant links. "Atlantis" and "orichalcon" turned up no relevant links. "Alto Plano" and "orichalcon" turned up no links at all.

I don't know anything about the subject, but apparently not. The orichalcon that's mined in the Andes is actually an alloy of gold, copper and another metal......nickel, maybe.......I forget.........but it's definitely mined on a regular basis. It's official name might not be "orichalcon" though, as this is the term Plato applied to it some 3000 years ago. Plato named a natural alloy of gold and copper that was mined in Atlantis, and the only place on Earth where a naturally occuring alloy of gold and copper is mined is in the Alto Plano region........this is extremely strong proof, IMO.

Crap. Half a billion years is a decent length of time in any timescale. DNA? Current hypothesises do not suggest there be any DNA in the first replicators. And it's not like a book writing itself at all. Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. Perhaps 1 in 10¹¹ - which is well within the bounds of possible random assembly. It would speak of no such thing, at all. Lipids will form spontaneously in the conditions believed to have been present on the early earth, and in some numbers. This is simply false.

PaulK, Charles apparently found something on orichalcon.......

MAXIMUM of half a billion years.........for something to happen that has an incredibly slight chance of happening.Like I said, even with natural selection effect, the only thing the next 3.5 billion years after that could come up with was a jelly fish. DNA or RNA, there's still a basic amount of info that they'd have to possess. No, it's probably much more complex........as we can write books today, but we still can't make a machine that feeds and duplicates itself. You did do the math, didn't you? One in 1011 is one in a TRILLION........and that's for the formation of ONE protein molecule..........and then we'd still need, what was the number you quoted? 60 to 100 of those to coincidentally combine in a sequence which produces life........ What is a lipid, anyway? Because I've never heard of anyone coaxing chemicals into forming anything more complex than an amino acid before.

em..only that I couldn't find anything about it - did you actually read my post?I can't find any evidence that alloys can nuturally occur - so that would seem to kill your theory stone-dead.I am happy for someone who actually knows something about metal to correct me?Look if you want to discuss this - present what you have IN A SEPERATE THREAD (which seems to consist of "em..er..I saw a show once..somewhere") and we do this properly.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-22-2004 07:18 AMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-22-2004 07:26 AMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-22-2004 07:26 AM