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Author Topic:   Darwin- would he have changed his theory?
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 181 of 195 (152407)
10-23-2004 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 6:13 PM


There's no such thing as thought, remember? Only checmical reactions...


"Behold My signifigance!" said SirPimpsalot, and all was right. "I am the Lambda and the Kappa, the Second and the Runner-Up."

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 786 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 182 of 195 (152408)
10-23-2004 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 6:13 PM


I repeat, "why make new ones"?

What would make them?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 6:13 PM SirPimpsalot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 6:18 PM crashfrog has replied

  
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 183 of 195 (152410)
10-23-2004 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by crashfrog
10-23-2004 6:16 PM


Take existing ones that are found in living things......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by crashfrog, posted 10-23-2004 6:16 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 6:25 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied
 Message 186 by crashfrog, posted 10-23-2004 7:29 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 184 of 195 (152411)
10-23-2004 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 6:18 PM


The obvious answer is because there's a very precise combination these protein molecules must form.......so precise that we couldn't possibly hope to stumble onto it through a process of trial and error......

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5227 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 185 of 195 (152418)
10-23-2004 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 1:57 PM


Re: Nothing to do with evolutionary theory
SPAL

How does this make sense?

Well for one the cells are now specialized.This allows for greater capabilities and hence a survival advantage.Since cells are specialized the organism can now devote those specialized cells to specific tasks and now the evolution of further cell specialization is greatly enhanced.


[W]hen people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 786 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 186 of 195 (152427)
10-23-2004 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 6:18 PM


Take existing ones that are found in living things......

Take them from what? And when the organism wants to reproduce, where do those new proteins come from?

You don't seem to get it, yet. It's not a matter of Shake and Bake proteins, not the least of which is because organisms are made out of more than protein.

Also, there's potentially a billion billion protiens. So, exactly which ones to you suggest we use?


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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 786 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 187 of 195 (152428)
10-23-2004 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 6:25 PM


The obvious answer is because there's a very precise combination these protein molecules must form......

Proteins don't really "combine."

See, its statements like these that betray your staggering ignorance of the fundamentals of biology. Biologists don't just make shit up, SP. Why do you think you can?

Take a class, for god's sake, if you want to talk about this subject.


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 188 of 195 (152705)
10-25-2004 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by crashfrog
10-23-2004 4:29 PM


What? No, it's been decoded for, I dunno, 50 years or more. Here it is:

Just a pedant's note, but the genetic code to amino acid conversion is not exactly the same for all life on earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by crashfrog, posted 10-23-2004 4:29 PM crashfrog has replied

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 Message 189 by crashfrog, posted 10-25-2004 12:08 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 786 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 189 of 195 (152791)
10-25-2004 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Dr Jack
10-25-2004 5:55 AM


Just a pedant's note, but the genetic code to amino acid conversion is not exactly the same for all life on earth.

Indeed. I understand mitochondria have a slightly different code, which substantiates endosymbiosis as the explanation of their origin.

But the fact that the standard code is shared by almost every organism is a pretty powerful argument for common descent.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Dr Jack, posted 10-25-2004 5:55 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Dr Jack, posted 10-25-2004 12:16 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 190 of 195 (152792)
10-25-2004 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by crashfrog
10-25-2004 12:08 PM


Indeed. I understand mitochondria have a slightly different code, which substantiates endosymbiosis as the explanation of their origin.

It's not just mitochondria, there are about sixteen known varients.

But the fact that the standard code is shared by almost every organism is a pretty powerful argument for common descent.

Not only that but the coding pattern itself seems to have been shaped by natural selection - in that of the possible codings the ones which are used have a high 'fault tolerance' in that errors will tend to produce either the same amino acid or a similar one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by crashfrog, posted 10-25-2004 12:08 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by crashfrog, posted 10-25-2004 4:59 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 786 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 191 of 195 (152834)
10-25-2004 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Dr Jack
10-25-2004 12:16 PM


It's not just mitochondria

Ok, you can turn down the pedantism, a bit. I never said it was just mitochondria, and I never said that every single organism uses the Standard Code. I understand a need to be precise, or to prevent misunderstanding, but you seem to be taking a fairly strident tone against assertions I'm not making.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Dr Jack, posted 10-25-2004 12:16 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Dr Jack, posted 10-26-2004 5:33 AM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 193 by NosyNed, posted 10-26-2004 10:50 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 192 of 195 (152997)
10-26-2004 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by crashfrog
10-25-2004 4:59 PM


Chill, man, I meant no offence.

This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8971
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 193 of 195 (153037)
10-26-2004 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by crashfrog
10-25-2004 4:59 PM


Precision?
Crash, you did somewhat imply that the code was universal and more strongly that the mitrochondria were the exception (with no hint there were others).

You're getting a bit cranky sounding over simple nit pick where you did leave the wrong impression.


This message is a reply to:
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The Unknown
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 195 (154766)
11-01-2004 4:07 AM


Yodela folks Just wanted to say hello c('-'c)

Replies to this message:
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 195 (154816)
11-01-2004 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by The Unknown
11-01-2004 4:07 AM


Welcome Unknown. How are things at the Parkside School. Did the recent MacBeth rendition come off well?

You might want to check our Discussion Guidelines before posting. Looking forward to your contributions.


How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

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