Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
8 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Atheistic preacher?
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 46 of 53 (155128)
11-02-2004 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by coffee_addict
11-02-2004 1:06 AM


Re: Don't patronize the Preach
You know, that is the most depressing thing I've heard all day... all week... heck all month. If you need a preacher to tell you what's moral and what's not, you are no different than a child. You have no principles and no logic.
Agreed, but they still have the right to vote
It might be true that people who believe that there's something divine out there. However, what I am saying is that you are wasting your time because there is no evidence for the divine. It's like believing in an immaterial pink unicorn. You can't disprove it but it's kinda silly to believe in something that has no evidence.
Just as silly as it is not to, eh? Maybe there is an immaterial pink unicorn in my room. Can't say for sure that there isn't, so I won't.
It's just that God's a little more significant in human interests.
Please don't tell me you intend to brainwash the mental vulnerable.
It sounds like you're suggesting that conseling by someone who happens to be a theist is automatically brainwash. I hope not?
I am glad you have a social life. The thing is I did all of that, and more, when I was in high school and I was already an atheist.
The 'blah blah blah' thing makes it hard to tell what you're responding to. Please make that clear.
Rather than preaching to people how to deal with certain situations, why not learn to teach people how to think?
I said I was preaching tolerance and openmindedness, as well as that whole Christian Love thing that people don't do anymore.
Not to be pessimistic, but I'm willing to bet 100 bucks that one day when you are grey you will preach some kind of message of hate and you will be convinced that whatever it is is evil even though it's really not.
Uh huh, sure. Simply because I'm a preacher, I automatically preach hate one way or another, right Nietzsche?
If that's what you're implying, you're not helping my case that atheists are openminded people who don't often make generalizations because of their state of mind.
My problem with preaching is that it makes people depend to much on the preachers. When a new situation comes up they will not be able to deal with it. History have shown us over and over that your message of love just doesn't work. Who knows, may be one day, like buz, you will preach of hatred against aliens or something.
Don't point fingers at me. 'My' message of love? I haven't been around for most of history. No, history has shown us over and over that the message of love is forgotten and people decide to hate instead. It's not the message's fault, it's the fault of the people who forget it. You're apparently scapegoating the doctrine just because its followers do bad things. That's not right.
And again, you're making completely unsupported assumptions about what I will preach simply because I'm preaching. That's a generalization and a stereotype; you're smart enough to know that.
This is why human reason, I think, is superior to any form of preaching out there. When you go to college, make sure to take as many philosophy classes as they offer and you will see that most of tolerance that we see today came from the various humanist philosophers rather than religious zealots. In fact, religious organizations have always been on the forefront of intolerance of every kind
But most people don't listen to humanist philosophers, do they? More listen to preachers at this point. And again, just because someone else used religion for hate doesn't mean I will.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm convinced that if we ever make contact with an alien race that religion is going to be on the forefront of anti-alien policies.
Not if I can help it. I'm no superman, but you never know. If this scenario does happen I know lots of my peers will do stuff like that, and I promise I'll do everything within reason to pacify that obvious danger of religion-based prejudice just like I'll be doing before said aliens arrive.
By the way, so far all you've done is said 'religion does this, religion does that'. You've made hardly an acknowledgement that I intend to do things differently. If you think just because I'm preaching that I'll be just like them, then you've made a direct, unsupported, and narrowminded insult aimed at me who is TRYING TO HELP YOU BY GETTING THOSE BASTARDS OFF YOUR BACK. You're smarter than this, Lam. I've seen you do much better.
Thanks for the offer, but no thanks. The decision has already been made. An engineered virus will be released soon. The virus is designed to only target those that preach hate toward homosexuals. It will erase every trace of their human sexuality and turn them into beastiality addicts. However, there are those of us among the high rankings of our secret organization that think those homophobes will just turn around and start preaching hate against sex between 2 human beings of any kind.
Yeah, cute. Go off in la-la land. In the meantime I'll be back here standing up for you and your fellow nontheists .
Just a notice, though. You've been preaching(zing!) about preachers being hateful and this and that. I've been trying to stick up for you guys; I've reminded you of that several times and you continue with your accusations toward religion. Judging by our conversation, do I seem like I'm preaching hate?
Immaterial pink unicorns are far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine an immaterial pink unicorn as best you can. Now, zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine an immaterial pink unicorn above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater immaterial pink unicorn. Now, do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of immaterial pink unicorns.
Cool. Awesome; I hope to meet one of these pink unicorns someday. But pink unicorns didn't create the universe nor do that have any salvation in mind.

God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.
Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by coffee_addict, posted 11-02-2004 1:06 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by coffee_addict, posted 11-02-2004 2:31 AM One_Charred_Wing has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 47 of 53 (155133)
11-02-2004 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by One_Charred_Wing
11-02-2004 1:59 AM


Re: Don't patronize the Preach
B2P writes:
Cool. Awesome; I hope to meet one of these pink unicorns someday. But pink unicorns didn't create the universe nor do that have any salvation in mind.
Of course they do. Immaterial pink unicorns created everything in the universe.
I think I've said everything I wanted to say... unless I think of something else after my very good night REM sleep which I'm about to enter.
Conclusion for now: I have no doubt that you will preach love and tolerance. However, I am a very pessimistic person and I don't think your approach will get through the very thick skulls of the people that hate. I am convinced that the best way to rid the world of hate and intolerance is to teach people how to think and make it mandatory to take as many philosophy and logic classes as they possibly can. Those classes tend to make you question your beliefs, which is a very good thing. Teaching the dogma of love to fight the dogma of hate, I think, is a waste of time.
A challenge. The rat, whatever, and buz are some of the very well known bigots on this board. Their entire basis for hating homosexuals and homosexuality is the message in the bible. Although I don't expect you to be able to get through to them, tell me how you would approach to making them realize that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality as long as it involves consenting adults.
I have a feeling that no matter how many bible verses you wip out, they will wip out just as many bible verses, if not more, to support their bigoted belief. This is where, I think, the messages of the bible fail and reason and logic must take over.

He's not dead. He's electroencephalographically challenged.
The longest word in the English language is pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 11-02-2004 1:59 AM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 11-02-2004 8:09 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 101 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 48 of 53 (155145)
11-02-2004 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing
10-30-2004 1:40 PM


Sorry I didn't address your actual question in my post. I just went off on one at Buz without thinking. Apologies.
I don't think any attempt on my part to "convert" you would be very successful; my ability to persuasively argue is limited. I'm not even totally sure that Allah, Jehovah, or Zeus aren't the real deal anyway. All I can do is talk on a personal level, and tell you the things that make me tend to question the likelyhood of the existence of a god or gods. You will have heard them all before, and if they weren't persuasive before, I doubt they will be now.
1) The agony and suffering of innocents caused by natural disasters, disease (infectious or congenital), or abuse makes me question the effectiveness or existence of a supernatural protector. I've heard several explanations for this. Some, like "God is in some way enriching or otherwise improving these people's lives through the back door by giving their baby Cystic Fibrosis" seem wholly inadequate. I don't really understand the others. This problem for me also extends to the suffering of animals, which appears to me to be just as real and distressing as the suffering of other people. It seems to me to be unjust of a caring and benevolent god to allow this.
2) More generally, I don't think that ideas of sinfulness and evil that are shared by many religions are at all useful in understanding the world. The fact that abusers are often the victims of abuse makes it hard for me to view evil behaviour as a choice unclouded by circumstances. Sure there are some people who have been abused that don't abuse; but I don't think that makes the idea of evil totally unproblematic.
3) There is a huge variety of religious doctrines that people around the world follow sincerely and with hope for a better life. There were a huge variety of religious doctrines that people around the world followed sincerely and with hope for a better life before Mohammed, Jesus and Moses. It seems unjust that someone might be condemned to eternal agony and suffering by accident of where and when they were born.
4) Putting aside that they are used to justify the existence of several mutually exclusive deities, I don't find any of the classic arguments posited for the existence of "God" (cosmological, teleological, and the others I can't think of) convincing. (Added by edit:- I think stuff like those arguments, and the claims about the uniqueness of the Koran or Bible, and all that kind of stuff is only there to impress those who already believe.
I can't think of any more right now. I guess they are the main ones. I assume they don't cause you any trouble.
This message has been edited by Tusko, 11-02-2004 06:43 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-30-2004 1:40 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 11-02-2004 8:15 PM Tusko has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 49 of 53 (155225)
11-02-2004 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by One_Charred_Wing
11-01-2004 8:53 PM


Re: Why Do You Believe There is a God
quote:
However, the name 'Bad Preacher' does not imply a good example. I did that on purpose. I even state in one post that my complaints are exxagerated way beyond proportion,and that I don't really wish that any harm comes to anything that I insult on my site.
Why would you want to set anything but a good example?
This post is not on the first page of your site or the next. A little buried. Unless I missed one.
I realize I made fun of some people who were thankful and then complain. I need to elaborate on why I'm okay to do so: 99% of my whining on this is blown WAY out of proportion; I don't believe Evanescence is a reason to doubt your thankfullness to God even if they suck. Just thought I'd get that out of the way.
It isn't really clear about your intentions. I really don't feel the "love."
quote:
Also, if people are taking to heart what some stupid kid writes on his web page (I have my birthdate on it, so one could do the math and tell I'm 17, as if my stupid complaints wouldn't reveal it anyway), then you have to wonder how long this person would've been 'uncorrupted', if you will, anyway.
You don't think teenagers are going to find your site? They don't care how poorly it is written. They just like the "bad" language. Just the kind of preacher kids want. One who can use foul language with the best of them.
quote:
But laughter is also a wonderful medicine, and as far as that goes my site's mission is to provide a wonderful medication.
I'm sure your friends do find you funny, unfortunately your humor doesn't translate well into writing. Like I said, it comes across negative and harsh.
quote:
Just because I don't believe OT events happened doesn't mean the stories don't have wonderful teachings. I can still teach the messages even if I don't believe the events happen, you know. After all, Jesus liked teaching in parables.
I understand that you can still teach morals, but I still don't understand why you want to take on preaching when you don't believe in the tenets of the religion.
When a church hires you to be their preacher, you work for them. They hire you to preach and teach them and their children the tenets of their religion, and to counsel them concerning life and death in accordance with those tenets. They don't hire you to do your own thing.
The only reason I point all this out is that I have seen "Bad Preachers" cause more harm than good.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 11-01-2004 8:53 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 11-02-2004 8:27 PM purpledawn has replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 50 of 53 (155294)
11-02-2004 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by coffee_addict
11-02-2004 2:31 AM


Re: Don't patronize the Preach
You know, I appriciate the compliment and sadly there is some truth to what you say about thick-skulled people. Their other arguements are usually "it's not natural" or "A man and man can't create a child". Hey morons, an infertile male and female couple can't either and yet you let them get married!
I can actually try that challenge in another thread if you want, as soon as this one dies down.
I still have a year to vote, but if I had to choose my poison between these two knuckleheads tonight I'd pick Kerry.
Abortion's still iffy for me, but stem cell research and getting religion out of the government sounds good to me. Too bad I live in a hardcore-Bush town.

God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.
Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by coffee_addict, posted 11-02-2004 2:31 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 51 of 53 (155298)
11-02-2004 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Tusko
11-02-2004 6:33 AM


1 and 2:Somehow I think God's going to let nature run its course. If he stepped in and stopped a storm(or fatal disease) every single time it was headed for a good person's house, then he'd be a controlling dictator. He'd be treating us like a bunch of babies. Speaking as someone who's lost people to fatal diseases, I still think it's better than somebody stepping in all the time.
3.I agree. That's why I feel God can make an exception with the 'believe in me or DIE' concept. besides, they all say very similar things anyway.
4.I think they all were poorly relaying the same message, and they all met the same God. They just told different screwed up versions of the tale, and now they fight over which lie is the only true road to salvation.
Just what I personally think .

God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.
Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Tusko, posted 11-02-2004 6:33 AM Tusko has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 52 of 53 (155300)
11-02-2004 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by purpledawn
11-02-2004 1:05 PM


Re: Why Do You Believe There is a God
It isn't really clear about your intentions. I really don't feel the "love."
I think it clearly said that my complaints are GROSSLY exxagerated to be funny.
You don't think teenagers are going to find your site? They don't care how poorly it is written. They just like the "bad" language. Just the kind of preacher kids want. One who can use foul language with the best of them.
Please, we(I mean kids my age for the most part, I realize there are exceptions)have been using this language since 4th grade. It doesn't entice us at all. And saying 'that's what kids want' is a generalization. We may not know everything, but the majority of us aren't as stupid as some people think. Would you automatically believe everything I said there as long as I used foul language if you were 17? I think not.
I'm sure your friends do find you funny, unfortunately your humor doesn't translate well into writing. Like I said, it comes across negative and harsh.
I never talk like that on a regular basis. That's what makes the site funny. Fine, I'll make an entree saying "I'M JUST KIDDING" if it'll maekj you happy.
I understand that you can still teach morals, but I still don't understand why you want to take on preaching when you don't believe in the tenets of the religion.
When a church hires you to be their preacher, you work for them. They hire you to preach and teach them and their children the tenets of their religion, and to counsel them concerning life and death in accordance with those tenets. They don't hire you to do your own thing.
But their thing sure as anything ain't working, one. Second of all, a minister has a lot of say in a church. My old church sure went downhill when a more conservative guy took the wheel. And the everlasting life and stuff is a tenet. So is tolerance and love. So is being a servant to your fellow man. And not commiting adultery. And a billion other tenets of Christianity that I do agree with.
The only reason I point all this out is that I have seen "Bad Preachers" cause more harm than good.
I'm not really a bad preacher. That site is there to be funny. If it matters that much, I'll post a reminder that I'm joking every now and then.

God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.
Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by purpledawn, posted 11-02-2004 1:05 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by purpledawn, posted 11-02-2004 8:32 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 53 of 53 (155301)
11-02-2004 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by One_Charred_Wing
11-02-2004 8:27 PM


Re: Why Do You Believe There is a God
quote:
I'm not really a bad preacher. That site is there to be funny. If it matters that much, I'll post a reminder that I'm joking every now and then.
That would be wise.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 11-02-2004 8:27 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024