Supernatural vs. Scientifically Unproven

I was just wondering what people's views on this were. Is supernatural a possible synonym for scientifically unproven? People have said that bigfoot, UFO's and the like are supernatural, but so were giant squids and the northern lights before science proved their existence was real. In the case of squids there wasn't a lot of physical evidence (at least no more than there is for bigfoot or UFO's) until recently. So, is it really acceptable to flat out reject something based on it being 'supernatural'? I say this, because it seems as though there is some close-mindedness out of the materialist camp. Since things like souls or God can't be proven by science (yet) then the possibility is rejected. This seems like the similar arguement that is frequently used against Christians (or any other religion for that matter). Basically everything is molded around a preconceived set of values for how the world operates. In the case of Christians people try to mold science around the Flood, etc. and in the case of materialist there can be no such thing as OBE's, NDE's, or ESP. So, does supernaturalism have to be reduced as phenoma that is 'miraculous' or can it simply be in defiance of certain principles we currently know about physics?
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ok...the word supernatural= a natural occurance beyond natural explaination. Yes i said natural occurance. why?. because super is a word that means beyond normal...or more powerfull than...so we have in the word : SUPERNATURAL our answer to our question posted above.
does the supernatural exist.. yes it does..is it unseen.. no it is not when it is allowed to be seen...and unseen when it is to work in its own spiritual relm. So here you have two worlds where only one entity (sic),can go to and from either world...and this can only be done supernaturally..it is (natural for the supernatural to visit and interact in the natural world)...but unnatural for we humans to visit the supernatural world..tho it is documented in the bible, that humans do posess a spirit of the supernatural world, but yet cannot visit the supernatural world because our flesh bodies prevent us from entering the spiritual world..to do so would be to reach a state that would allow humans to go to the supernatural world..and that act that allows us to do that is called : DEATH. Now the bible warns we humans that we will die 2 deaths,, one of the flesh, and one of the spirit..but thoes who have made God their god, die only one death, and that is of the flesh.So if you read the documentation throughout the bible, you will find the warnings of entering the supernatural world by death, is a final act. But it also document how humans can live eternally in the supernatural simply by believing and accepting the act that Jesus did to cause us to live eternally in the supernatural world...and Jesus gives us a word for that ..faith..read romans 10 9-11..it will explain how to be able to enter the eternal everlasting relm of the supernatural simply by confessing,professing the name of Jesus, and having faith in Jesus and what he did on the cross...time is running short...the signs are here and can be seen that time is about to end, the bible gives proof that certain signs will be seen by man before Jesus returns for his people..by people i mean thoes that believe in him, ask forgivness of their sins, and have faith in him and make him their only one god. Now that is what is documented in the bible..i surely do not want to wait for hell to grab me in fire and brim stone for eternity...when all i have to do that which is stated in ROMANS 10 9-11. The very act of FAITH. It is an act of faith that i have even tho i have never seen the supernatural..or a ufo...or esp...the payoff is heaven ..the loss of not believing in Gods word written to all men..is an eternity in hell fire brimstone suffering pain etc. etc. dont get me wrong i am not trying to preach...im just using the only documented proof written thousands of years ago a book that warns us of eternal damnation if we do not prepare ourselves NOW for eternity.. i dont want to take that chance..do you... well you can spend your life tossing words of evolution around till the day you expire..but when i expire, i will have a true journy to heaven..because i believe in what the Bible tells me..not one man can tell me different..if you would spend your time reading the bible as a historical actual event like you do your research on other topics, you will come to the truth of the creation of our world we live in..because there is something far more important than banging your heads against a post (lol),trying to find answers from men who weren't around whe God created the Heaven and the Earth for mankind to live on and to be near to God himself..it was in the garden of Eden where man decided to take it on themselves to take on sin and act on it and believe it, and now spiritually have died from it.The only bridge back to God is provided to us (as documented in the bible), is the act that Jesus did on the cross.It is a faith as that of a little child has to believe on Jesus. The act he did is to provide the bridge back to the way it was before we sinned in the garden of eden. and an eternal life with God for eternity.. the word used is SAVED.. saved from what ...from the clutches of HELL for all who do not come to the bridge back to God thru what Jesus did..so you see ...we all are in alot more eternal trouble...because when you weigh the payoff...its either HEAVEN OR HELL. well you have to read the bible..im not maken anyone do anything. it is your own choice. see you all come to these posts to ask heavy questions full of large words and links as proof and you respond back and forth looking to each other for answers..remember..non of we humans were there in the beginning..how can we try to convince eachother in things we no not? YET THE BIBLE IS A DOCUMENTATION OF THE BEGINNING OF MANKIND, and yet full of supernatural hosts that we are trying to look thru the scales that cover our eyes.. we hear but do not believe because we have no faith...we think we need proof, when it is sitting before us.Yet we neglect to research the bible to answer our questions. Who are you going to believe..man or the creator himself...AS FOR ufos and esp, the word ufo is+ unidentified flying object.. yet we read in the bible that certain persons were caught up into the clouds on a firey chariot. thousands of years ago..yes thousands..we cannot prove the amout of technilogical advancement before the flood, but again sitting before us is documented proof that firey charriots ascending into the heavens.. up that is .lol. AS FOR esp exta senceory power, when we are allowed by the supernatural relm to see things in the supernatural as david did in the bible as shown the future by god..then we can see into the supernatural world.. but esp cannot be fully obtained untill we expire. No one man can ever go to the other side to experiance the supernatural world unless he is of the supernatural world.The bible states that no man can enter the kingdom of heaven without first going thru Jesus the son of God. IN other words..you are here..X on the map lol...and you cannot go there to the supernatural world for eternity unless you have faith in what Jesus has done to provide that bridge back to God /heaven/ were we were before adam and eve sinned in the garden of eden..the bible will point out that God came down from heaven to visit adam to talk to him and walk with adam in the cool of the evening.But when adam sinned, God cannot be with sin, so God threw him and eve out the garden. The only way back is as i mentioned beforehand ...it is thru Jesus we re=aquire our positions with God..thru Jesus.. the other choice is damming...God made a place for satan and his fallen angles..called it HELL. that is were one is also thrown to when one rejects the bridge back to him.. by not believing in the forgiving act that Jesus did to bridge man back to God. Hell i read is forever in tourment in fire /brimstone/darkness/pain/nashing of teeth/etc. etc. seperated from the light of God...no water...etc. etc. as documented in the BIBLE. Let's not spend our lives quibbling about creation and evolution...because one day you may pass, and it will be to late to accept the forgiveness Jesus offers all..
Please post your responses.. i know i cannot spell...but i have faith un measurable.!
allen

so john you hope god is a woman...lol..i just cant believe you read the bible 4 times and once in hebrew! because if you did read the bible,,you would have read the passage where Jesus refers to God as : My Father..now if your mind is in working order...the word father is of the male side of the sexes. Common john admitt you just love to respond in a snied way... causeing more attention to your wittless remarks...you will never understand what is being said because i precieve that your mind is one sided in the thought process. If i were you...i would take a very serious look at your spirit..and make a decision as to what you are going to decide in your endevor..pahhh what ever your trip is..what ever you get off on...just dont make sence to me.. you make it hard to debate with your synical remarks and short bursting fly off the lip shoulder hunching ..i dont care attitude you seem to be fueming off...i do believe i will go to another post, some where there is a place were i can get a solid and adult type of reasoning conversation...without the bland clickity clack sound off the railroad track response from people who have no clue to anything in life not even their own thinking...
sorry do you understand that john... in short..
bug off...smarty.
alle

i was not posting to make you believe anything..if you indeed have read the bible 4 times completely thru, and in hebrew,thats a plus for you...short of getting personal with you, i dont choose to do so, so if your looking for another chance to deny Jesus and what he did for you personally, is your choosing.I just wanted to share my thoughts on evolution vs. creation. I mean i just wanted to let someone else see what i believe..not to get picked apart, or to convince someone else to believe , i simply mean this in short:
THAT I BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS A HISTORICAL RECORD, THAT IT SHOWS PROOF TO A BELIEVER IN THE WORD THAT GOD HIMSELF HAS WRITTEN.THAT THERE IS A SPIRITUAL WORLD THAT LIVES ALONG SIDE US. THAT WE HUMANS HAVE A SPIRIT INSIDE US.THAT THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF THE LOST OR UNSAVED/THE SAVED/.
But yes the bible speaks of whores and liars and murderers and theives
and perverts and the like, because the bible warns these and all men (sinners), there is a judgement comming, and a spiritural damnation for the sinners.IM JUST SAYING THAT I BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS..BECAUSE IT ANSWERS MY FEARS...IT CLARIFYS WHAT I CANT SEE...SO I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE WHAT IT READS.. so you may have made your choice, and i cannot do anything about your choices..i do not live in your body so i dont care what you choose . I just feel it is a shame that adults today cant grasp the historical record the bible is..when a small child can accept it more easily with out any debate to its meaning..
I JUST THINK IT IS UNBELIEVEABLE ADULTS HAVE TO NIT PIC THE WORDS THAT COME FROM THE TRUE GOD HIMSELF..AND FLATLY REJECTING THE OLDEST DOCUMENT THAT TELLS US WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BEGINNING AS OPPOSED TO A MERE MAN WHO BURRIES A PIGS SKULL ALONG WITH A HUMAN REMAINS AND SAYS HE FOUND THE FIRST HOMOERECTUS..AND THAT DARWIN BEFORE HE DIED CLAIMED IN HIS LAST WORDS...THAT THERE MUST BE A GOD WHO CREATED. I JUST AM SAYING WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE TRUE...but you may go ahead as you will...hack apart my post, and have fun..it dont bother me at all..i just am waiting for someone to reply with an adult view to what i have written...i really dont care what you believe in...i just posted what i have found in my life..and was shareing it with you.
But go ahead and call me names and tell me i need to start reading hebrew just because you have.. well im happy you can read hebrew...that is your choice not mine...i have heard that the hebrew language is more detailed and has more true meaning than the king james verson of the bible...happy happy happy...im not going to get pissed off because im less educated than others...i know i am, and i dont intend to go to college..or for that matter care how i spell...
to me that is not at all important for me...CAN I JUST SHARE ..sheesh.
oh, its your turn John...id like to hear some detail as to what you believe on the main topic i was trying to relate to..evolution/creation using the bible as a documented proof of creation. just my beliefs john..john do you have ANY BELIEFS?
then share them with me because i am truely a kind person..i just want to share what i believe, not convert, not twist anyones arm..so lets reply to that ok john...dont get personal . .i havent been.
alle

JohnSome people make me laugh but, you make me laugh hysterically until I start crying and I can no longer take your stupidity any more because you have shown yourself the true rear end of a donkey and I am sickened by your lack of real intelligence. You profusely spew from your fingers words of empty reasoning and I really dont care to continue this whatever it is of a conversation in this forum so please let me depart from your blind eyes and numbing conversation you spew out at me. I no longer care what the hell you think or say or do or whatever you are, and I could give you a quarter to call someone who cares but in your case you would debate your way to the laundry mat instead of the phone booth and loose the quarter along the way, I have no feeling for you and your dumb thinking, you would reject a helping hand if it was offered to you while you hang on a ledge screaming for help, I hope this post causes you to realize this is how I see your preveous posts to me, all run togeter but in a line, all close but no winner, truth is what one sees as an honest quest finalized after searching ALL aspects of one shunt. You should stop looking so far away for the truth as it is sitting in front of you if you are holding the Bible. Did you not know, dear friend, that the scales of hell cover your eyes, and that all you need to do is have simple faith, and didn't you read in the bible not to learn of or listen to other religions least you fall in them? John, you cannot convince me one iota that you read and applied the word of the only one living God. Please don't even throw evil names at me of other gods, because I don't worship them and never will, in your case you don't even have a god, you are too busy escaping the one thing you know in your heart that you need to come to Jesus. Don't tell me different. If I hurt your kindergarden feelings I apologize for that, I know a good mind is not a thing to waste. Stop wasting your mind for your own sake. Your answers to my post are actually quite good. I hope you do well in your quest in finding Jesus. Oops, sorry, because if you do research all the other gods in this world, you will find the best one to be Jesus.I will read your responce to this post, but I will not respond to it because I don't want to keep casting my pearls in the wrong direction. Remember if you sow your seed on rock and gravel it will not grow, if you sow your seed on fertal land it will grow and produce good fruit. Which one do you want to be, the seed on the rock or the seed on the fertile land. All the proof I have for you is in the bible, so read it again, John, stop being hardheaded, your spiritual future, and your everlasting spiritual life depends on the choice you make. Buddah or Jesus.allen[Restored spaces to the post. --Admin][This message has been edited by Admin, 08-15-2002]

Dear John,
You WIN!
BUT , before i leave ok...... I would like to introduce you to
a man who teaches the king james version, with the help from the Hebrew language..so my DEAR FRIEND,(whom i now admire)..because i sincerely have begun to like your style..lol..you are a pure pleasure to write to. and i mean that with all my kindergarden learning..lol.
You have taught me one thing John...never step in with the bull,if you want to leave the arena with all your parts still intact!.
(in short john, you know what i mean lol..
well..i will give you my email address, and i hope we can become real friends,as i have totally enjoyed your putting me streight.You seem to have a true heart in your search for the truth..nonetheless, i have aquired an address that i pray you will write to, and ask for a list of tapes you can listen to. I have never come across any other
preacher or establishment that could prove word by word anything,
any question etc. that i could throw to them.. you can even write spacific questions, and they will respond..but i do hope you can at least ask for the list of tapes . You can jump around on the list, and pick out what topic/s you fancy to hear..a powerful and strong proof of the TRUE LIVING GOD.
please write to the following:
SHEPHERDS CHAPEL
P.O. BOX 416
GRAVETTE AR. 72736
USA
write your request for the list of tapes, then after receiving the list, please choose your topic , and write again for the tape you pick.
I personally appoligise for any hurt that i caused you, and here is my email..as i wish to have you as a friend.
You are a fine person to know, and again i am sorry i posted the rude and mean things ..as i was totally out of my league with you. But i now offer my friendship..(which is rare). So be honored lol.
Octokat1@cox.net
P.s. maybe you can teach me a few things..(hand shake!).
bye for now friend.
allen[This message has been edited by allen, 08-15-2002][This message has been edited by allen, 08-15-2002]

Brad.
That was beautiful..and a little humerous to read..but in all a round
about way..you are very right in your post..not only are the old things regenerated as the new..i admitt old cellular is the means of the new groups who do come around with the dialer effect not withstanding the manual typing at hand..tho i do agree with you fully,
finally an adult answer. Quit right in that lost are the things of old covered by the new that compute the young of today generally a diagnosis of : what me worry sapping of the minds is melay to an extinguishing effect!.. lol. please dont get me wrong...but supernatural is just something we cannot in effect interact with..but yes supernatural is as it will be,but not as it would be in the minds of professors and graduates that hone the capture of the supernatural at the aspect of losing ones mental being notwithstanding a long saturday night at the bar..pink elephants as i suppose is the outcome of possible reflections of your own experiances as if on an angry ocean tossing to and fro...lol please dont get me wrong..but the supernatural does line in the cognitive. um er eh...oh yes..ahhhhh
ahummmmmm ....pardon me i have gas...as your post so generates its flux flo . get real..a supernatural effect is not the same as a supernatural quantum effect graduated by the humerousness that you expell flagulantly. good day.

first i am not a christian..second,i have no religion,,third..i have faith
in a god who took my place on the cross and paid for my sins so i do not
have to go to hell when i die..fourth, to receive salvation, one must have
faith that the size of a mustard seed.. a small seed..dont take much faith
to believe in what jesus did for me... as for your link.. why christains
convert to islam.. should read: why fools choose a false god over Jesus..
because the twisted words you line up to reflect a general rule as to why
christains convert to islam.. islam is a religion..a man made way of adding
pieces of scripture that make him feel things happened in his own picking
the truth he believes is the way he should or wants to worship a god that
is false...or is placed above the true only living god. So i do not choose
mans religion. i choose to believe in a single god who created all things,
and offers a bridge back to himself by the simple act of taking my place on
the cross...and paying for the sin of man in order that we may once again
walk with him in everlasting glory. I do not spend my time and effort trying
to puzzel toghether other things i do not believe to prove that man is
right.. i believe what god has done is right..remember.. Jesus is
alive..death could not hold him.. he went into the depths of hell to take
the keys of hell and overcome death itself. did your god do this in islam
religion..because death is the result of sin..and untill man comes to the
forgiving power of jesus, he will end up in hell for eternity because of
sin.. adam and eve brought sin into the world by choice..simply by
disobeying the command of God himself not to eat of the fruit of the tree of
the knowledge of good and evil..but they did, i personally do not believe
this was an actual fruit, i believe it was saying that they should not take
into their mind or lives the act to know about good and evil ways...remember
there was no sin before this act. But once they chose to break the command
not to take of the knowledge of good and evil, then sin was born in man..and
the wages of sin is death of the flesh, and death of the spirit..bound for
hell...hell being the eternal punishment to the spirit.
That is wha t i believe . Nothing any man will ever convert me to islam or
any religion that has a name...i do not claim religion.. i claim faith in a
living god....i dont recall any name in the bible that says if you have
faith in Jesus you are a particular religion now.. remember man did
that..ie.. christian/catholic/islam/jewish/buddist/

So are you going to actually reply to anything I've said, or just repeat yourself ad infinitum?.......hey i cut n pasted that...lol
hi john..
first i have to find out what infinitum means, and then try to remember what it is that you wrote, and maybe i may not answer it because i was trying to get y ou to email me and get off this silly forum so we can communicate in a more rashinal way...but you wont, so untill you email me... i refuse to answer you any more... you have my email.. as someone else has emailed me and is helping me out on this eternal delema...a truely kind person they are..they are takeing the time to explain to me what i cannot find as truth, and you are just using this forum to show your cool way of yappen.. so please email me.. because i will no longer ingadge in this forum, as i am now deleting the URL to this site, and in childish words saying:
BYE BYE JOHNIE...... IM DONE IN HERE.. GOOD DAY ..HAVE A GOOD LIFE.. AND KEEP THE FAITH BRO
allen bye !