Bush is back!

Pot calling Kettle; come in Kettle.Its a bit futile bringing up Vietnam stuff when its Bush we're talking about, isn't it? Expecially when Kerry, by most accounts, handled himself fairly respectably.

So... did America desire freedom, and Iraq wish to take that freedom away? I guess this would work if Iraq has dangerous weapons that they were going to use on America imminently. If Iraq carried out this attack, then it would be taking away the freedom to live of many Americans. In pre-emptively resisting, America would be protecting its freedom. But of course, this isn't the case there weren't any weapons.Did the Iraqi population desire freedom, but the Iraqi government take it away - and the benevolent American military industrial complex helped the Iraqis to realise their dream? This kind of makes sense, but there are plenty of countries where the populations cry out for more autonomy, including states hostile to America like North Korea, and states friendly to America like Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan and Turkey. Why aren't we seeing more action in these places from the American military? Shouldn't they be keen to light the beacon of freedom WHEREVER there is the darkness of tyranny?
Additionally, there have been many thousands of Iraqi civilians who have has their freedom to live taken away by American munitions. Bummer for them, but maybe the Maths of Freedom says thats a necessary evil.No, wait - maybe I've got it. Maybe the ruthless dictator, Saddam Hussein, wanted the freedom to develop and use terrifying weapons that he would then use with impunity, and America wanted to take that freedom away. But that doesn't really seem to work either, because freedom is always a good thing.Personally I don't think freedom means very much at all, because it means very different things to different people. For some people it means the freedom to abort your unborn child. For others it gives you carte blanche to kill loads of adults and children. Go team!

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Bitterness and anger are signs that your emotions are interferring with your thinking, which means you are more likely to be wrong.

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Maybe you're right and my moral outrage is clouding my judgement.Show me how I'm wrong about the deficit.Show me how I'm wrong about there being increased recruitment for Al Qaida in Iraq now compared to before our invasion.

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Yep. Why argue? You believe you're right.

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Copout.I made factual assertions.If I have my facts wrong, show me.I listen to facts.

Paisano, can you give an example of the US unilaterally invading a country, overthrowing the government, and installing a new leader friendly to us at the moment that has succeeded in producing a lasting, real democracy?IOW, when has nation-building ever worked fo us in the past?

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In this part of the country, people are talking about Roe v. Wade. Lots of fundie christians voted for W because they want that ruling overturned. I think it's likely that the battle will be joined with W's first Supreme Court apointment.

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He's going to have one hell of a fight if he tries:http://www.signonsandiego.com/...041105/news_1n5specter.htmlIn fact, this might be the issue that finally brings the infection in the Republican party to the surface.We might see the party implode as the FNeoCons and the real Republicans go at each other.

duplicateThis message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-05-2004 07:54 AM

The primal scream of a Western Zen dilettante off their medication.
Something like Howard Dean after Iowa...but alone.Sorry, couldn't resist.

I didn't know being a Christian meant I had to take everything seriously. I find your attitudes all very funny actually. I would probably find your attitudes just as funny if Kerry had won and you were all gloating over defeating Bush.There's nothing wrong with pointing out how most of you have totally lost your perspective on life through this thing. But I suppose you're right... Dale Carnegie says to never criticize condemn or complain so I'll shut up.

Just a reminder to everyone: please keep it civil. The less personal insults the better for the discussion.Adminssimo Hambre

*dupe*This message has been edited by Yaro, 11-05-2004 09:15 AM

I have to agree with Hangdawg, I don't agree with his viewpoint, but I can understand his arguments. In any case, he hasn't been insulting to anyone so far, yet the oposing side has been very...ummm... 'pissy' Lets argue the issues, not the person.

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There's nothing wrong with pointing out how most of you have totally lost your perspective on life through this thing.

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Yeah, we're sorry for being involved in and caring about what happens to our country's government and the effect the leaders we elect have on us and the rest of the world.It really is dumb and silly to take this stuff seriously, it's true.I know you are still in school and probably don't have to worry much about things like keeping your health insurance, putting a roof over your head, feeding your kids and being able to send them to college, keeping your job, taking a pay cut, getting laid off, seeing your retirement savings evaporate, seeing prices for everything go up, your civil liberties being eroded, etc.Get back to me when you are out of school and have to move back with your parents because all there is out there are McJobs.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-05-2004 09:20 AM

Edited- I'll let others deal with you.This message has been edited by Lam, 11-05-2004 11:41 AM

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Hate world.Revenge soon!

This is one thing I never got.Reps loved to play on the "Dean Scream" as if he was off his rocker when he was (if you actually saw it in context) getting excited and rallying a crowd, ending with a smile and a Yeeeeha!Yet you never heard anything when in the second debate Bush actually got off of his chair and yelled at the moderator of the debate, interrupting a question, in order to address something he felt angry Kerry had said.Did you see that, and if so why was Bush's actions considered less bizarre than Dean's given context? That's okay, it was kind of funny. Of course I wish you would have either answered the questions I posed (beyond the clapping one), or admitted defeat on those points. Since you didn't do either, it appears the real answer to the hand clapping question is: a proBush Republican trying to answer real questions with facts and reason. Not so funny, but unfortunately accurate.This message has been edited by holmes, 11-05-2004 12:22 PM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

the good side there is that it will probably be reinquist, so no great change.but then he may appoint Thomas as chief.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}