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Author Topic:   Water As An Element of Fine-Tuning
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 36 of 100 (156520)
11-06-2004 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by tsig
11-06-2004 12:38 AM


Re: odds
When an event has happened the odds that it will occur is unity.

This is a circular argument that could be used to defend all sorts of absurdities (such as the materialistic evolution of life).......


"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago

I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought

"I believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets...
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen."
The Nicene Creed

Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 12:38 AM tsig has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 38 of 100 (156523)
11-06-2004 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 12:44 AM


Before the second, first and only are the same thing

Key part being "BEFORE the second"......there is no SECOND universal solvent which expands when frozen........


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 12:44 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 12:51 AM RustyShackelford has responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 40 of 100 (156528)
11-06-2004 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 12:51 AM


How so? If there was ONE guy who went from state to state and won every lottery, I'd assume the decked was stacked in his favor......likewise, since there's ONE universal solvent which expands when frozen, regardless of the varying laws of phyisics, I assume the deck is stacked again.......
This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 12:51 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 12:56 AM RustyShackelford has responded
 Message 46 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 1:14 AM RustyShackelford has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 43 of 100 (156539)
11-06-2004 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by tsig
11-06-2004 1:05 AM


Re: odds
You could use the exact same argument to explain away "Jesus Loves You" and a giant cross getting pounded into the moon by an asteroid shower...........you could use the exact same argument to defend ANYTHING contrary to your opinion, which is why it's circular.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 1:05 AM tsig has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 44 of 100 (156541)
11-06-2004 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 12:56 AM


We don't know that, though. There's only one set of laws of physics we're aware of; we have no idea what things would be like in any others.

YES, we do, because no other sets of physical laws would prevent matter from being like matter is here.......matter can either exist or it can not exist, and it can exist in varying forms of complexity, but it can't be DIFFERENT.......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 12:56 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 1:12 AM RustyShackelford has responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 47 of 100 (156544)
11-06-2004 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 1:12 AM


No, because relativity and the laws of physics don't effect quantum processes, and quantum proesses are what creates complex matter.........therefore, only ONE universal solvent exists, in all the theoretical multiverse.......
This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 1:12 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 1:17 AM RustyShackelford has responded
 Message 49 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 1:23 AM RustyShackelford has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 51 of 100 (156550)
11-06-2004 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 1:17 AM


Um, no, I just think you don't know anything about quantum physics........quanta communicate at faster than light speeds.......there's one particular aspect of relativity broken right there..........electrons orbit a nucleus, held in position by a force we know isn't gravity.......macro-gravity has no effect on quanta, either. We know how quanta behave in relation to other quanta, and THAT'S what quantum mechanics is, but they don't behave that way because of macro-physical laws acting upon them.......they act that way simply because they act that way. There are no apparent forces acting upon them.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 1:17 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 1:46 AM RustyShackelford has responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 53 of 100 (156553)
11-06-2004 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by tsig
11-06-2004 1:26 AM


Not when they're wrong.....
This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 1:26 AM tsig has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 1:37 AM RustyShackelford has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 67 of 100 (156785)
11-06-2004 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 1:46 AM


Oh, I get it. You think the theory of relativity constitutes all laws of physics.

Nope......but defying relativity is proof that many if not all of the laws of physics don't apply to quanta.


"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago

I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought

"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene Creed

Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 1:46 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 7:26 PM RustyShackelford has responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 68 of 100 (156789)
11-06-2004 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Silent H
11-06-2004 7:36 AM


You had more than just my word, you had my examples.

But I don't know if your examples are accurate......I need more info.

Also, though I realize the oceans might not freeze entirely, they would become too frozen to support marine life........

Unless you want me to collect signatures to back this up

I want to hear experts who agree with you.

Perhaps you would care to list their explanations of how bottom-up freezing would create the results they are claiming we would see in the world.

I don't know. I heard Lam admit it early on in this thread, I've been told this by a friend of mine who's a chemistry major and I read it in a school book once........I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I need more than just your word since I already HAVE the word of three other sources.


"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago

I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought

"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene Creed

Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Silent H, posted 11-06-2004 7:36 AM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Silent H, posted 11-06-2004 7:08 PM RustyShackelford has responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 69 of 100 (156790)
11-06-2004 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by tsig
11-06-2004 10:50 AM


Re: Jason Chin Remix
Thanks for the info, my head was getting a little sore butting into brick walls and the goalposts were moving at warp speed.

I'm not taking sarcasm from a person who's never even heard any multiverse theory or the potential for the variablity of the laws of physics or anything else pertaining to fine-tuning........


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by tsig, posted 11-06-2004 10:50 AM tsig has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 70 of 100 (156793)
11-06-2004 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by RAZD
11-06-2004 11:23 AM


Re: maybe too late but ...
This assumes that life requires a liquid that freezes and thaws. Not necessarily so.

Ummmmm, I do believe every liquid in existance freezes at a certain temperature.........

But then most anthropic arguments are like that.

Most arguments against it consist of appealing to the insanely improbable, like ammonia life.


"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago

I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought

"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene Creed

Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2004 11:23 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2004 9:25 PM RustyShackelford has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 72 of 100 (156817)
11-06-2004 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Silent H
11-06-2004 7:08 PM


You have also had at least one other person on here say the same thing as me. Why does Lam take precedence?

Who? And Lam takes precedence because he's one of three seperate sources.......

Look, I'm clueless when it comes to chemistry, so I have no idea how accurate your examples are......I'm gonna have to ask for one of those appeals to authority that Crash hates so much.


"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago

I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought

"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene Creed

Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Silent H, posted 11-06-2004 7:08 PM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Silent H, posted 11-07-2004 6:24 AM RustyShackelford has not yet responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 74 of 100 (156833)
11-06-2004 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 7:26 PM


What the hell are you babbling about? It's simple fact that many of the laws of physics don't apply to quanta. They communicate at faster than light speeds, they are at any given time a wave or a particle, they are not influenced in any way by gravity.......


"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago

I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought

"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene Creed

Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 7:26 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 7:43 PM RustyShackelford has responded

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 76 of 100 (156840)
11-06-2004 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 7:43 PM


You've confused the laws of physics with our understanding of them. You've confused the map with the territory.

No......no, I haven't. The Copenhagen (I.E. vast majority) interpretation is that we know all of quantum function that is knowable.......you of course weren't aware of this, because this plainly isn't your field.


"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago

I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought

"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene Creed

Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 7:43 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 8:25 PM RustyShackelford has not yet responded

  
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