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Author Topic:   What is to be taken literally?
Angel
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 81 (157161)
11-08-2004 5:46 AM


Soul Slay "How do we know what is meatn to be taken literally and what isn't?"
Maybe your confusion on this lies in that which confuses others. Jesus is not God, with this not being the topic, I will not refer to it furthur, for now, but it's important to mention for my explanation. When Jesus speaks, he speaks in parables so that he could accomplish what was to be completed before His execution. When God speaks it is matter of fact.

Angel

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Proboscis, posted 11-08-2004 1:39 PM Angel has replied

  
Proboscis
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 81 (157306)
11-08-2004 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Angel
11-08-2004 5:46 AM


Woah there now Angel,
While yes, you should keep the question of whether Jesus was God out of this thread, I would most CERTAINLY have to disagree with you. From what Jesus said, he was either the Lord, a liar, or a crazy dude. I think it makes most sense that he was God out of those, don't you think?
Alright **cracks knuckles** time to get to work. I see that you all are debating how you can know what to take literally and what NOT to take literally. Like they were all saying, Jesus used parables and such to help us understand the things we would NEVER otherwise be able to understand. I think if you read the Bible, it's obvious to pick out which parts are historical and which ones are to be taken figuratively. God made everyone with good judgement skills. If you don't accept Genesis, you obviously just want to believe in Evolution just so you can "fit in" with some of the most influencial scientists in the country.
Jesus makes it clear, "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." What do you think he means with this? Even if you don't accept the Bible, I'd like a reply as to what you think he meant. Or how about this, "I and the Father are one" John 10:30 I believe that one is. What do you think he was meaning there? Does he say that so that we won't believe him? So that we won't take him literally? Feel free to answer me! I'd be glad to here your opinion!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Angel, posted 11-08-2004 5:46 AM Angel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by NosyNed, posted 11-08-2004 2:22 PM Proboscis has replied
 Message 21 by doctrbill, posted 11-09-2004 9:23 AM Proboscis has not replied
 Message 22 by Angel, posted 11-09-2004 9:47 AM Proboscis has not replied
 Message 25 by MonkeyBoy, posted 11-09-2004 2:01 PM Proboscis has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 18 of 81 (157321)
11-08-2004 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Proboscis
11-08-2004 1:39 PM


Not at all obvious
If you don't accept Genesis, you obviously just want to believe in Evolution just so you can "fit in" with some of the most influencial scientists in the country.
This is, of course, not at all obvious. It is generally a very bad idea to be telling others what they think, feel or the reasons for their actions. That is especially true with the very small amount of information that you have from what is posted to this board.
I might also ask you why you wouldn't want to look at what close enough to all the influential scientists of the world have concluded. Concluded after decades of data gathering and careful analsysis. Information and logic that it is "obvious" that you know nearly nothing about. (see, how do you feel being told something about yourself based on very little information)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Proboscis, posted 11-08-2004 1:39 PM Proboscis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Proboscis, posted 11-10-2004 1:33 PM NosyNed has replied

  
SoulSlay
Member (Idle past 5610 days)
Posts: 44
From: billy's puddle, BC
Joined: 10-26-2004


Message 19 of 81 (157324)
11-08-2004 2:28 PM


Alright, the theory or evolution isn't the topic here. So far i've heard people say that some things in the bible are open to interpretation, and some things are concrete. This is what i said originally. Some verses are obviously one or the other. What I'm asking is, what about the ones that are not obvious? How do we know which catagory they fall into?

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Angel, posted 11-09-2004 8:22 AM SoulSlay has not replied

  
Angel
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 81 (157573)
11-09-2004 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by SoulSlay
11-08-2004 2:28 PM


Hi SoulSlay,
You asked:
quote:
What I'm asking is, what about the ones that are not obvious? How do we know which catagory they fall into?
Can you post some of the scripture that you are asking about? It is unlikely that you will get your answer without us knowing what scripture you are referring to. What may be obvious to others may not be obvious to you, on the same token, what you may see as obvious, may not be obvious to others.

Angel

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by SoulSlay, posted 11-08-2004 2:28 PM SoulSlay has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 21 of 81 (157584)
11-09-2004 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Proboscis
11-08-2004 1:39 PM


Proboscis writes:
... you should keep the question of whether Jesus was God out of this thread,
Why? Why not ask whether it is to be taken literally?
From what Jesus said, he was either the Lord, a liar, or a crazy dude.
Why limit yourself to these choices?
I think it makes most sense that he was God out of those, don't you think?
It is not entirely clear that 'the Lord' is the same as 'the God.' If they are one and the same, then why try to split them out, as the trinitarians do?
Jesus used parables and such to help us understand the things we would NEVER otherwise be able to understand.
Some say Jesus used parables to prevent people from understanding.
quote:
"That is why I use these illustrations, so people will hear and see but not understand." Matthew 13:13 LB
if you read the Bible, it's obvious to pick out which parts are historical and which ones are to be taken figuratively.
Not at all. Thus, this thread. I think it's more challenging than simply distinguishing which parts are historical.
I think God made everyone with good judgement skills.
What the heck would drive you to such a conclusion?
If you don't accept Genesis, you obviously just want to believe in Evolution just so you can "fit in" with some of the most influencial scientists in the country.
Do you believe in the theory of Gravity? Does that mean that you just want to believe in Gravity just so you can "fit in" with some of the most influential scientists in the country?
"I am the way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." What do you think he means with this?
Sounds like Royal jargon. Like he thinks he's standing in the place of God.
"I and the Father are one" John 10:30 ... What do you think he was meaning there?
Sounds to me like he's saying either, "I am the father." Or: "The father and I are united."
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Proboscis, posted 11-08-2004 1:39 PM Proboscis has not replied

  
Angel
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 81 (157591)
11-09-2004 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Proboscis
11-08-2004 1:39 PM


Hi Proboscis
quote:
Jesus makes it clear, "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." What do you think he means with this?
Simple answer, Noone comes to God without going through Jesus, He died for your sins, and now has the authority. It doesn't say no one comes to me but through me.
quote:
Or how about this, "I and the Father are one"
Yes, so they are together as one. Which is the same as saying we are one nation, but millions of seperate individuals. They are united, they stand together, they are one. But still they are two seperate Beings.

Angel

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Proboscis, posted 11-08-2004 1:39 PM Proboscis has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by lfen, posted 11-09-2004 1:13 PM Angel has replied
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-09-2004 4:10 PM Angel has replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 23 of 81 (157642)
11-09-2004 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by SoulSlay
11-05-2004 12:56 PM


Does god want us walking around with different values, saying they're the same?
Well, we are each unique individuals and yet all human beings, aren't we?
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by SoulSlay, posted 11-05-2004 12:56 PM SoulSlay has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 24 of 81 (157645)
11-09-2004 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Angel
11-09-2004 9:47 AM


Simple answer, Noone comes to God without going through Jesus
What?? Like driving through the Holland tunnel?
Jesus is like a wormhole that we dive into and exit this universe to arrive in the heaven that we haven't observed in our universe?
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Angel, posted 11-09-2004 9:47 AM Angel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Angel, posted 11-09-2004 2:49 PM lfen has replied

  
MonkeyBoy
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 81 (157661)
11-09-2004 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Proboscis
11-08-2004 1:39 PM


From what Jesus said, he was either the Lord, a liar, or a crazy dude.
He also could have been delusional (perhaps he actually believed he was the saviour) or several other things. The exclusion of one idea does not automatically mean that its opposite is true; there are generally many alternatives. This christian absolutism is self defeating.
I think if you read the Bible, it's obvious to pick out which parts are historical and which ones are to be taken figuratively. God made everyone with good judgement skills.
So obvious in fact, that there is only one christian denomination, not several thousand.
If you don't accept Genesis, you obviously just want to believe in Evolution just so you can "fit in" with some of the most influencial scientists in the country.
Yes, I hang out with S. Hawking every weekend. This is what I meant above; if a person does not subscribe to your literal interpretation of Genesis, then in your mind he/she is automatically an unbeliever. What about the people that believe in the christian god and science? Or believe in any god and science?
Aside from your advice on using common sense, since I do not possess any, how can I determine which parts of the bible are literal nad which are figurative?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Proboscis, posted 11-08-2004 1:39 PM Proboscis has not replied

  
Angel
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 81 (157675)
11-09-2004 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by lfen
11-09-2004 1:13 PM


Ifen,
quote:
Jesus is like a wormhole that we dive into and exit this universe to arrive in the heaven that we haven't observed in our universe?
No, that is not what that meant, I can't tell if you are asking real questions, or if you are just trying to be obnoxious. Because I made it through college, does that mean that I literally went through the front door and out the back?

Angel

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by lfen, posted 11-09-2004 1:13 PM lfen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by lfen, posted 11-09-2004 3:58 PM Angel has replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 27 of 81 (157710)
11-09-2004 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Angel
11-09-2004 2:49 PM


I'm obnoxiously asking a real question. I can't figure out how literally you are making your statements.
What do you think it means to look on God's face or back?
I'm thinking of the story of Vivekananda asking Ramakrishna to show him reality, and then he was overwelmed by the vastness and pleaded to return to ordinary ego consciousness. I would say that to behold God the ego must die but that isn't a bad thing.
I've mostly heard from Trinitarian Christians on this site, and I'm trying to understand your take on Christianity.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Angel, posted 11-09-2004 2:49 PM Angel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Angel, posted 11-09-2004 4:07 PM lfen has not replied

  
Angel
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 81 (157717)
11-09-2004 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by lfen
11-09-2004 3:58 PM


quote:
What do you think it means to look on God's face or back?
To look upon His back would be a blessing, to look upon His face would be death.

Angel

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by lfen, posted 11-09-2004 3:58 PM lfen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-10-2004 1:53 AM Angel has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 81 (157719)
11-09-2004 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Angel
11-09-2004 9:47 AM


Simple answer, Noone comes to God without going through Jesus, He died for your sins, and now has the authority.
Well, here's one Christian that says,"Nonsense."
See this thread for my reasoning.
Even the oft quoted passage from John is taken out of context.
When we read the Bible we need to read all of it and not just cherry pick a line here and a line there to meet our preconcieved notions. We need understand that is it a book, written by many authors, each suffering from his own limits, preconceptions, political leanings and hubris. It was later redacted and vetted by other equally fallible humans to serve the needs they saw at a particular moment in history.
The Creedal belief is that the Trinity is one individual consisting of GOD, Christ and the Holy Ghost. Like all religion, it is simply belief. It is not something subject to scientific analysis.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Angel, posted 11-09-2004 9:47 AM Angel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Angel, posted 11-10-2004 1:45 AM jar has not replied

  
Angel
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 81 (157814)
11-10-2004 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
11-09-2004 4:10 PM


quote:
When we read the Bible we need to read all of it and not just cherry pick a line here and a line there to meet our preconcieved notions. We need understand that is it a book, written by many authors, each suffering from his own limits, preconceptions, political leanings and hubris. It was later redacted and vetted by other equally fallible humans to serve the needs they saw at a particular moment in history.
You have absolutely NO argument from me on this point! I have a minor in religion, and am well aware of all of these facts.

Angel

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-09-2004 4:10 PM jar has not replied

  
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