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Author Topic:   Directly Observed Mutation
Steen
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 50 (157547)
11-09-2004 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by RustyShackelford
11-01-2004 2:26 PM


Re: micro - macro
quote:
different species can't produce fertile offspring with one another, correct?
Except when they cause hybrids. Remember that evolution is meassured on a population-wide level, not in individuals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by RustyShackelford, posted 11-01-2004 2:26 PM RustyShackelford has not replied

  
Steen
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 50 (157549)
11-09-2004 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by RustyShackelford
11-01-2004 2:37 PM


Re: micro - macro
quote:
Can you give me proof that this animal's existance was caused by evolution?
Well, the nylon bug was DOCUMENTED to have a frameshift mutation that lead to completely new traits.

And another example is that of ring=species. Read this tread for details:
www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=page&f=5&t=488&p=8 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=page&f=5&t=488&p=8">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=page&f=5&t=488&p=8

These show direct documentation of all the changes that occured in order to evolve a new species.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by RustyShackelford, posted 11-01-2004 2:37 PM RustyShackelford has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-09-2004 3:42 AM Steen has not replied
 Message 49 by Wounded King, posted 11-09-2004 5:32 AM Steen has not replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 5339 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 48 of 50 (157554)
11-09-2004 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Steen
11-09-2004 3:32 AM


Re: micro - macro
Hey Steen-

I believe Rusty was suspended... so don't waste too much time on his posts...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Steen, posted 11-09-2004 3:32 AM Steen has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 3411 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 49 of 50 (157560)
11-09-2004 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Steen
11-09-2004 3:32 AM


How well documented?
Steen writes:

Well, the nylon bug was DOCUMENTED to have a frameshift mutation that lead to completely new traits.

Is this actually the case? Certainly the Ohno (1984) paper makes a convincing argument that the existence of an alternative 400+ amino acid sequence coding ORF which would be formed by the removal of a single nucleotide which forms a termination codon in that longer ORF.

As I say, the argument is convincing but is it a documented frameshift mutation? Is there a plasmid or a gene identified in the wild corresponding to the alternative long ORF?

One site which discusses the frame-shift origin is here, I dont know if this is a site you've seen or where you got your information concerning the fame-shift from but this site is one I have often seen referenced for this claim. The site says...

Detailed examination of the DNA sequences of the original bacterium and of the nylon-ingesting version show identical versions in the gene for a key metabolic enzyme, with only one difference in over 400 nucleotides.

And yet the Ohno paper I mentioned previously says in its conclusions...

Indeed, the very basic former totally lacking Trp and Asn residues is not likely to function as an enzyme of any sort,

And produces absoloutely no comparison with any original plasmid sequence but rather a hypothetical alternative open reading frame. If this is the source of the 'Detailed examination' showing only 'one difference in over 400 nucleotides' then it is a phantasm caused by a misreading of the original paper.

I want to make clear that I have no reason to doubt that this is most likely how the nylon digesting genes have arisen, I just don't know if you could say that it is really a documented case of a frameshift mutation leading to a new trait.

It may just be that there is subsequent research of which I am unaware which has identified an ancestral form of teh gene with the alternative ORF still functional, if so I would be obliged if someone could provide it.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Steen, posted 11-09-2004 3:32 AM Steen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Wounded King, posted 11-11-2004 6:36 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 3411 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 50 of 50 (158291)
11-11-2004 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Wounded King
11-09-2004 5:32 AM


Nylon bug question
*Bump* I don't know how frequently Steen visits this site, I would be very interested in anyones input on this matter. Am I just not up to date or is the data on the nylon bug exaggerated, possibly because of the interpretation on the website I mentioned.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Wounded King, posted 11-09-2004 5:32 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
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