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Author Topic:   Evolution without death?
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 8 (159953)
11-15-2004 9:31 PM


If it becomes possible for orgainisums to alter their DNA or even just their phenotype through Biotechnology or similar tecnology would it be possible for evolution to occor?
Normaly individual organisums cannot evolve because mutations can only take place in one cell at a time although a single celled orgainisum could be said to evolve if it mutated. If a mutated cell is not a gamete then the mutation is not passed down. But if an individual organisum could alter it's DNA it could evolve right?
Would we call this evolution? Or would this be something else?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-15-2004 11:12 PM The Dread Dormammu has replied
 Message 5 by coffee_addict, posted 11-15-2004 11:31 PM The Dread Dormammu has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 8 (159980)
11-15-2004 11:05 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 3 of 8 (159985)
11-15-2004 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu
11-15-2004 9:31 PM


If it becomes possible for orgainisums to alter their DNA or even just their phenotype through Biotechnology or similar tecnology...
It is more than possible. It is called "gene therapy" and is currently in limited clinical trials in humans.
Would we call this evolution?
No, I don't think so. Evolution refers to changes in allele frequencies in populations over time, not in individuals.
Or would this be something else?
Transmogrification? Isn't that what Calvin & Hobbes called it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-15-2004 9:31 PM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by arachnophilia, posted 11-15-2004 11:16 PM pink sasquatch has not replied
 Message 6 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-16-2004 12:06 AM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 4 of 8 (159986)
11-15-2004 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by pink sasquatch
11-15-2004 11:12 PM


Transmogrification?
dude, i want a transmogrifier.
in fact, i think i'll go find a cardboard box and a marker right now!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-15-2004 11:12 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 5 of 8 (159991)
11-15-2004 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu
11-15-2004 9:31 PM


Dread writes:
If it becomes possible for orgainisums to alter their DNA or even just their phenotype through Biotechnology or similar tecnology would it be possible for evolution to occor?
Yes.
Normaly individual organisums cannot evolve because mutations can only take place in one cell at a time although a single celled orgainisum could be said to evolve if it mutated.
No, if an individual single cell organism mutates into something else, it would be called a mutation, not evolution. The way evolution is defined nowadays prevent such usage in such manner.
If a mutated cell is not a gamete then the mutation is not passed down.
Not really. Cells that multiply through mitosis can pass down their mutations as well.
But if an individual organisum could alter it's DNA it could evolve right?
No, it would mutate. Again, based on our current definition of evolution, a single organism cannot evolve no matter what you do with it.
Would we call this evolution? Or would this be something else?
I'm going to side with Kafka and call it metamorphosis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-15-2004 9:31 PM The Dread Dormammu has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 8 (159997)
11-16-2004 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by pink sasquatch
11-15-2004 11:12 PM


Copying good ideas
Well the gene frequencys in a population COULD change over time. If somone "transmogrifyes" something novel and advantagious they might sell the genes (or superviuses that would transcribe the genes) in the same way we sell computer programs.
Thanks to Lam for correcting my terminology I should have been more careful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-15-2004 11:12 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by wormjitsu, posted 11-18-2004 6:20 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

  
wormjitsu
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 8 (160919)
11-18-2004 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by The Dread Dormammu
11-16-2004 12:06 AM


Re: Copying good ideas
Dread Dormammu- "they might sell the genes (or superviuses that would transcribe the genes) in the same way we sell computer programs."
Wait a second...I know nothing about this. Please elaborate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-16-2004 12:06 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

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 Message 8 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-18-2004 8:54 PM wormjitsu has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 8 (161280)
11-18-2004 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by wormjitsu
11-18-2004 6:20 AM


Re: Copying good ideas
Wait a second...I know nothing about this. Please elaborate.
It's not suprising that you haven't heard of it, because it's totaly fictional. But lets say we had some kind of gateway outside our cells nucielus. We could put it 9the gateway) there through Genetic engeneering or through gene therapy etc.
When we want to upgrade our DNA we inject a bunch of virues with the genes we want into our bodies, they line up with the gateway and inject the genes into our cells.
This would work differently than normal gene therapy because the genes could be incoparated into any or all of aour tissues depending on our needs. I might be mistaken but I think normal gene threapy only affects the specific tissues that the engennered virus would normaly infect.
This system might be more versitile than standard gene therapy and would even be able to put those genes into our germ line. The obvious danger would be that people could hijack your cells if they found out what your gateway protein was.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by wormjitsu, posted 11-18-2004 6:20 AM wormjitsu has not replied

  
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