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Author Topic:   Dinosaurs explained biblically
Manzer
Unregistered


Message 1 of 107 (16127)
08-27-2002 8:25 PM


How does the christian scientist explain the existance of the dinosaurs and how they fit into creation?
Replies to this message:
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axial soliton
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 107 (16210)
08-29-2002 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Manzer
08-27-2002 8:25 PM


The directions say I cam flame, so here goes.
I asked this question in a another thread when someone named john paul was firehosing the place with pithless commentary. The creationists here think the dinosaurs were on the ark. This is so vacuous these people must be breathing something. Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Bible. So anything creationists try to think of to account for god's mistake there, is laughable.

Whenever religious fanatics come to my door, I always invite them in (over my wife's protests). One pair of Baptists was certain of the 6,000 year ago creation date. I asked them about the dinosaur bones in the Smithsonian museums down town. The corner they argued themselves into was that god created only the dinosaur bones and then he buried them for us to find. God never created any dinosaur flesh, only the bones. When I need a lift, sometimes I think of the Baptists and the Jehovah's Witnesses.


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John
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 107 (16218)
08-29-2002 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by axial soliton
08-29-2002 2:29 AM


quote:
Originally posted by axial soliton:
Whenever religious fanatics come to my door, I always invite them in (over my wife's protests). One pair of Baptists was certain of the 6,000 year ago creation date. I asked them about the dinosaur bones in the Smithsonian museums down town. The corner they argued themselves into was that god created only the dinosaur bones and then he buried them for us to find. God never created any dinosaur flesh, only the bones. When I need a lift, sometimes I think of the Baptists and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Hey, same story I got as a kid!!!

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
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Me
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 107 (16229)
08-29-2002 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by John
08-29-2002 5:13 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
Originally posted by axial soliton:
I asked them about the dinosaur bones in the Smithsonian museums down town.

Perhaps the dinosaurs were all wicked, and so they weren't allowed on the Ark, like the Unicorn? I think the thing that surprises me is the belief that if you don't believe in a very precise bit of dogma, you are going to hell.

Whether Christ is the Son of God, whether you should love your neighbour - these are optional, but you'd better not think that the world was created any date except 4004 BC. I haven't checked, but I suspect that the Pope, The Archbishop of Canterbury, and the Supreme Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland (a fine body of religious men, I am sure) are all going to hell on this account.


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axial soliton
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 107 (16251)
08-29-2002 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Me
08-29-2002 7:51 AM


Dinosaurs are reality. Maybe the only reason for challenging creationists at every turn is that they try to foist mystical beliefs upon us even in the face of facts. These people will arouse my challenge anytime they try to force the teaching of something called "creation science" in my local public schools.

Some people need an inner belief in a higher level of being than what they can perceive around them. This is a personal and philosophical matter. I, for one, will accomodate someone's need for this type of belief. There are those who presume mystical origins for things around them which they cannot (will not?) take the time to understand. To keep this to your self is one matter, but to foist mysticism on others who do take the time to learn and who can understand these physical phenomena is a trevesty. I do mean travesty.

Creationism presented in the newspapers, to school boards, and this forum is a delusion. We know that because it will not help us live with our environment. Science evolved for exactly that purpose. Why creationists feel the need to compete with technology I cannot fathom. There are a couple of people who post to this forum who try to use the latest technology advancements to find gaps in the knowledge base and use this to say ultimately that science is wrong and creationism must be correct. It has provided some lite moments. Like a game of Go, science is connecting the dots around them and their irrelevance is overtaking them.

Science is all about finding the dots and connecting them. Self-replicating molecules, the origin of life elsewhere in the solar system or the Universe, the human condition, and human sentience overlap some large number of the dots. Adventure is the thing, not mysticism.

What ever happened to the fella called John Paul?


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Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 107 (16269)
08-29-2002 11:01 PM


Flood creationists believe the dinosaurs (presumably as young!) were probably on the ark and died out shortly afterward. The Bible mentions in several places animals which quite clearly match (i) a huge marine reptile and (ii) a sauropod-like creature with a 'tail like a cedar tree'.
Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 7 of 107 (16309)
08-30-2002 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Tranquility Base
08-29-2002 11:01 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Flood creationists believe the dinosaurs (presumably as young!) were probably on the ark and died out shortly afterward. The Bible mentions in several places animals which quite clearly match (i) a huge marine reptile and (ii) a sauropod-like creature with a 'tail like a cedar tree'.

Since the passage also speaks of the animal being strong in his loins, it is pretty obvious that the "tail like a cedar" is referring to it's big, virile penis.

Job 40

16Behold, his strength in his loins,
and his power in the muscles of his belly.
17He makes his tail stiff like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
18His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like bars of iron.

It is not referring to a dinosaur's extension of the vertibrae which we currently call a tail.


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gene90
Member (Idle past 1927 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 8 of 107 (16380)
09-01-2002 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by nator
08-30-2002 1:21 PM


The animal mentioned in Job that we are supposed to believe is a dinosaur sleeps under lotus plants and is small enough to be concealed in the reeds (verse 21). The Jordan "surges against his mouth" (verse 23) meaning the animal is rather squat as dinosaurs go, much too small to have an actual tail the size of a cedar tree. Most likely the animal is a hippo or elephant, just as is reflected in the footnotes.

By the way, the wording is, "Swings like a cedar tree"

http://www.biblegateway.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Job+40&version=NIV

[This message has been edited by gene90, 09-01-2002]

[This message has been edited by gene90, 09-01-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by nator, posted 08-30-2002 1:21 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by nator, posted 09-01-2002 9:11 PM gene90 has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 9 of 107 (16382)
09-01-2002 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by gene90
09-01-2002 6:42 PM


quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
[B]The animal mentioned in Job that we are supposed to believe is a dinosaur sleeps under lotus plants and is small enough to be concealed in the reeds (verse 21). The Jordan "surges against his mouth" (verse 23) meaning the animal is rather squat as dinosaurs go, much too small to have an actual tail the size of a cedar tree. Most likely the animal is a hippo or elephant, just as is reflected in the footnotes.[/QUOTE]

Great additions, Gene.

[QUOTE]By the way, the wording is, "Swings like a cedar tree"

http://www.biblegateway.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Job+40&version=NIV

[This message has been edited by gene90, 09-01-2002]

[This message has been edited by gene90, 09-01-2002][/B]


Of course, the wording depends entirely upon which Bible version one quotes from.


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gene90
Member (Idle past 1927 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 10 of 107 (16383)
09-01-2002 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by nator
09-01-2002 9:11 PM


That's true, I checked the KJV and it actually does read like TB's post so I stand corrected. As can be seen in my link I used the NIV for that one simply because it is the default selection on biblegateway.net.
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gene90
Member (Idle past 1927 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 11 of 107 (16384)
09-01-2002 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Manzer
08-27-2002 8:25 PM


A young Creationist, maybe about TC's age but not nearly as well informed, once explained to me that dinosaurs are not extinct. You see, they are lizards, the very same species that are alive today and can be found in dry woodpiles and under rocks. Lizards apparently never stop growing, and in a hyperbaric pre-flood paradisiacal environment they got *really* *really* big.
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dinotrac
Unregistered


Message 12 of 107 (20995)
10-29-2002 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by axial soliton
08-29-2002 2:34 PM


Gosh. And "some people" feel a strange need to feel superior to "some people."

I don't get the creation science thing myself. People cling to it in the belief that it will destroy Christianity in a way that Galileo's failure to find the firmament or to see angels pushing the planets around could not.

The Bible is not a scientific work. It is a theological and philosophical collection meant to have meaning for people who lived at a time when zero hadn't been conceived and forty meant a long, long time. That's why it talks about the ends of the earth. Science is left for man to discover. Otherwise, Jesus might have helped a few folks out by showing them how to make generators and electric circuits.

By the same token, someone who actually understands science, as opposed to merely making the claim, knows that science is not without limits and not without its own forms of mysticism.

Science is limited to the observable. Science is also based (like math) on a small set of unprovable assumptions. That's not a criticism. You can't do anything without defining a framework.

Scientists are prone to a near-mystical belief in Occam's razor and their own insight. Neither is infallible. Just ask a Coelacanth.


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TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 107 (21033)
10-29-2002 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by gene90
09-01-2002 10:23 PM


"A young Creationist, maybe about TC's age but not nearly as well informed, once explained to me that dinosaurs are not extinct. You see, they are lizards, the very same species that are alive today and can be found in dry woodpiles and under rocks. Lizards apparently never stop growing, and in a hyperbaric pre-flood paradisiacal environment they got *really* *really* big. "
--Well I am embarrassed to admit that that sounds like me after a heavy dosage of them Hovind seminars & other such sophistry... Of course my nerve endings have expanded just a bit since then .

--As for my thoughts on Dinosaurs, I'd agree with TB.

-------------------

[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 10-29-2002]


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Defcab
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 107 (21235)
11-01-2002 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Tranquility Base
08-29-2002 11:01 PM


so are you saying that dinosaurs and humans were alive at the same time? that thyey just died off soon after leavign the ark? so then how come there have been no human remains anywhere near dinosaur fossils in the fossil record? that doesnt make any sense; did humans only start leaving fossil remains in the last few centuries?
This message is a reply to:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 15 of 107 (21248)
11-01-2002 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Defcab
11-01-2002 1:27 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Defcab:
so are you saying that dinosaurs and humans were alive at the same time? that thyey just died off soon after leavign the ark? so then how come there have been no human remains anywhere near dinosaur fossils in the fossil record? that doesnt make any sense; did humans only start leaving fossil remains in the last few centuries?

Hi Defcab

Don't you know that creationists have found dinosaur footprints in the same strata as human footprints?

Some creationists, not all, still tout the Paluxy River tracks as authentic evidence that humans and dinos co-existed.

Pathetic garbage is it? No, not when you are lying for God.

Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the bible but creationists, and others, will perform wonderful textual gymnastics to try and say that they are. Next thing they will 'find' in the bible is the instructions on how to build a pentium 4 chip, and if you read the bible WITH the Holy Spirit you can see it too!!

Best Wishes

Brian

------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!


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