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Author Topic:   Genetic 'Bottlenecks' and the Flood
John
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 59 (16180)
08-28-2002 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Me
08-28-2002 2:15 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Me:
/b]

Exactly right. Creationists should be able to find bottlenecks in every species of plant and animal dated to the same time-frame, ie the flood.

quote:
I don't know if domestication and human breeding would upset such calculations - perhaps we would need to select cells from uncontrolled groups like wild birds. Would this be a sensible, credible and practical experiment?

On the scale like that of the flood, I don't see how human activity could skew the data.

Definitely a credible experiment. Wonder why the creationists haven't already carried it out? It would prove their point once and for all, after all.

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www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Me, posted 08-28-2002 2:15 PM Me has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Me, posted 08-28-2002 3:12 PM John has responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 59 (16183)
08-28-2002 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Me
08-28-2002 3:12 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Me:
I was hoping to get some idea of the difficulties and costs involved.

It should be easy enough to do. The data is probably already available. If you could find five or six species with a bottleneck at 6000bce, the snowball would start rolling and no-one could stop it.

Just challenge the Creationists orgs to find ten species with such a bottleneck.

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www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Me, posted 08-28-2002 3:12 PM Me has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Mammuthus, posted 08-29-2002 4:32 AM John has responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 59 (16220)
08-29-2002 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Mammuthus
08-29-2002 4:32 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Mammuthus:
Actually, out of curiosity, can anyone find a single example of a species that has been identified where the genetic bottleneck dates back to 6000 years ago? There may be but it is nothing I have looked for or seen widely reported.

Ah... and that is exactly my point. Why bother with analyzing every species when you can't find even a few?

Conversely, even one species that does not show such a bottleneck derails the whole thing.

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www.hells-handmaiden.com

[This message has been edited by John, 08-29-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Mammuthus, posted 08-29-2002 4:32 AM Mammuthus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Quetzal, posted 08-29-2002 7:06 AM John has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 59 (16245)
08-29-2002 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Me
08-29-2002 11:53 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Me:

By the way, the link you provided to the Menotti-Raymond, M. and O’Brien, S.J. paper does not work for me. I have tried unsuccessfully to find another - is there one you know?

This one should work.

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/90/8/3172.pdf

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www.hells-handmaiden.com


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 Message 9 by Me, posted 08-29-2002 11:53 AM Me has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Quetzal, posted 08-30-2002 4:24 AM John has responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 59 (17910)
09-20-2002 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Quetzal
08-30-2002 4:24 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Quetzal:
Thanks John. Appears I had an extra "http://" in there.

If one is good, you'd think two would be better.

Bump.....

I was liking this one.

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www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Quetzal, posted 08-30-2002 4:24 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

  
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