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Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Has anyone seen god? | |||||||||||||||||||
Angel Inactive Member |
This is a contradiction of one statement of the bible to another.It is also in direct contravention with your own statement. Sidelined, I think we have spoken enough to each other now, that you should know by now, that I do not deny that there are indeed contradictions in the Bible translations. Errors lead to more errors, etc. My only point, which has been turned into this BIG ordeal was that no one has seen God's face, not His body, or Him in general, but His face. So I think maybe you are asking the wrong one, if you are wanting me to explain a contradiction (or a copy error as I would call it), in the Bible itself. Maybe you should be seeking that answer from someone who believes that there is no errors. Angel
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Zachariah Inactive Member |
the text of that passage says, literally, that Abraham saw the Lord. If Jesus is not the Lord then who is He? John 10:30 If you believe that Jesus always told the truth then in John 10:30 Jesus says that He and the Father are one. So if the "Lord" is spoken of in the Old Testament, and it is said that you will never see the face of God the Father, then when it refers to the Lord in the Old Testament and you see His face, literally, then it must be (I think) Jesus. That's what I think. -Z
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
i don't believe the book of john.
and when it says abraham saw the lord, it says LORD in caps, not Lord in lower case. the difference is between YHWH (god the father) and adonay (lord of anything, really)
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Zachariah Inactive Member |
Wow, interesting. Actually Yhvh or Ihvh (YHWH) as we know it and Adonai are the same in meaning. Adonai-a Hewbrew name for God, usually translated in the Old Testament by the word Lord. (note) The later Jews used it's vowel points to fill out the tetragrammaton Yhvh or Ihvh 'the incommunicable name' and in reading substituted Adonai. --Webster's 1913 Dictionary-- So it looks as though YHWH and Adonai actually are the same in meaning. They just got substituted one for the other throughout hstory. Forbidden
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
i'm well aware of the substitution. you may wish to go read this thread: http://EvC Forum: HaShem - Yahweh or Jehovah? -->EvC Forum: HaShem - Yahweh or Jehovah?
יהוה and אדני are not, however, of the same meaning. יהוה or yahweh is the proper name of god. it's play on the word hawah or "to be." so the name yahweh literally means "he who exists." אדני or adonai, however, means lord and denotes some kind of soveriegnty. however, traditionally, when you read יהוה you say "adonai" not "yahweh" and thus the two are interchanged. but they only use his title in avoidance of using the actual name. the two are not of same meaning. This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 11-23-2004 02:23 AM
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Zachariah Inactive Member |
I checked it out. Very impressive. What I like best about this site is that when I think I know a little I find out how little I really know. I have to say you know your stuff. You say you don't give credance to John. Why? If you aren't Christian and if you are Jewish or other I can see why you would say that. Is that it? -Z
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
no, i'm a christian.
i don't believe john because it has christ saying things that actually are blasphemy. it reads more like propaganda than actual quotations.
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Zachariah Inactive Member |
Can you give me some examples of where you feel the blasphemy occured?
I would like to research it further and get back to you. Also you should check out the FFOZ (first fruits of zion) site and subscribe it is highly informative. It takes a more "back to the roots" look at the bible and how the Old Testament and New Testament work together to basically back up one another. How nothing really has changed between the two Testaments. You would love it. I think. -Z
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thank you Zach, for noting that there is really a new topic here.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Its ben a year or two, but as I browsed I found this exchange between us, Brian!
The Sun, Light, and Heat analogy is not a perfect model, but seems to show that the Light is quite different from the Sun itself. Similarly, seeing Jesus face to face would be quite a bit tamer than having His Father before you! I mean, wouldnt it? :?
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 301 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
God is without body or form that can be seen.
Heaven itself is not physical in any way. God only communicates through the Holy Spirit, directly connected to our souls and consciousness. The Bible does not show an instance of physical manifestation. Burning bushes and voices heard by the mind. Yes. Many of the writers in the Bible note that when God spoke to them or showed them revelations, they were "in the spirit". I take this to mean that the occurrence was strictly in the mind. RegardsDL |
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Jesus is the son of God, a man. God the father is not a man. He is the father of Jesus. If you see me, you do not see my father, though I may resemble him. Jesus and Jehovah, the father have one and the same spirit, the Holy Spirit. My father and I do not have the same spirit. To see Jesus is to see the man Jesus, not Jehovah the father. As Jesus was on earth, Jehovah god was up in Heaven. So on earth you see a very close image of God, but you do not see God.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
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Brian Member (Idle past 4986 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Jesus is the son of God, a man. God the father is not a man. He is the father of Jesus. But a man is someone who has human parents, Jesus didn't have a human father so He could not be a man, He must have been something different.
If you see me, you do not see my father, though I may resemble him. So your father was a god as well was he? Jesus was supposed to be God incarnate so it is logical that Jesus looked like God. Is Jesus God?
So on earth you see a very close image of God, but you do not see God. Have you seen God? Brian.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Brian writes: But a man is someone who has human parents, Jesus didn't have a human father so He could not be a man, He must have been something different. He often referred to himself as "son of man," meaning he was a human being human born. He was different, nevertheless, a man. Paul said, "I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all;......."
Brian writes: Is Jesus God? Ask him. He has always referred to himself as the son of God or as the son of man. depending on the context of his statement. He represents man before God as man's advocate. Brian: "Have you seen God?" No. I thought I made that clear. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
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Brian Member (Idle past 4986 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
He often referred to himself as "son of man," meaning he was a human being human born. But He wasn’t human born, human born requires a human mother and father, and we are told Jesus’ father was God. Can you tell me another human whose father wasn’t human?
He was different, nevertheless, a man. Different but the same? Someone with a god for a daddy is not human.
Paul said, "I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all;......." Well Paul said a lot of things that are absolute crap.
Ask him. He’s dead, been dead for about 2000 years, if He ever existed that is.
He has always referred to himself as the son of God Buz, we are all sons of God.
or as the son of man. He wasn’t the only one referred to as ”son of man’ though. How often was Ezekiel referred to as son of man?
depending on the context of his statement. Well, to understand the context of his statement you need to understand what these terms mean.
He represents man before God as man's advocate. Yes we all know the myths, and we all know how ludicrous they are, especially the ”sacrifice’ that wasn’t a sacrifice.
Brian: "Have you seen God?" Buzz: No. I thought I made that clear. Okay, so you do not know what God looks like. You do not know what Jesus looks like. So, you do not know if they are identical or not. Here’s some logic. Jesus is God. Jesus had a face. Therefore, Jesus’ face was God’s face. Simple innit? Brian
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