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Author Topic:   Only one version?
JJboy
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 106 (16325)
08-31-2002 1:24 AM


I have seen rumblings here and there about how most YECs believe that there is only one version of the Bible. This refers, of course, to the King James Version Only movement. Is there any KJV only people out there, on this site? if there are could you please identify yourselves? I am not a KJV only person, but Iwould like to discuss it, obviously not on this board, but through E-mail. Anyway, any who are interested, please respond.

It is my opinion, those who know nothing or very little about this debate, that the KJV is NOT the only version of the Bible that is true. So, no need to argue with me about it.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by John, posted 08-31-2002 1:31 AM JJboy has not yet responded
 Message 4 by gene90, posted 08-31-2002 4:55 PM JJboy has responded
 Message 8 by Philip, posted 09-02-2002 4:17 AM JJboy has responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 106 (16326)
08-31-2002 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by JJboy
08-31-2002 1:24 AM


quote:
Originally posted by JJboy:
So, no need to argue with me about it.

Then why are you posting?

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JJboy, posted 08-31-2002 1:24 AM JJboy has not yet responded

  
JJboy
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 106 (16330)
08-31-2002 1:45 AM


I would like to identify any KJV onlies, if they exist, on this page.
  
gene90
Member (Idle past 1988 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 4 of 106 (16346)
08-31-2002 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JJboy
08-31-2002 1:24 AM


My church uses our own special version of the KJV exclusively for the Bible. There are a few reasons for this: (1) ensuring doctrinal homogeneity across our large and rapidly growing organization (2) Joseph Smith retranslated some of the passages of the KJV for accuracy because the KJV was all he had, and we don't want to confuse things by trying to "fit" those edited passages (which occur as an appendix in the back of the LDS Bibles) in some
other translation (3) having our own version of the Bible means we have to publish our own Bibles and therefore we cannot allow ourselves to be at the mercy of a copyright holder outside of the church (4) we publish hundreds of thousands of Bibles and distribute them to the public as a part of our missionary work -- these Bibles are not the LDS edition but run of the mill KJVs (because the KJV is not copyrighted). Though our version is better it is still most akin to the KJV and this ensures more doctrinal homogeneity between what we distribute publicly and what we use on Sunday mornings. (5) We have an enormous Bible Dictionary and Topic Guide that uses the KJV and transfer to another version would require much reinterpretation and rewriting. We have already done this for the KJV so there is no need. (6) If God wants an upgrade He will provide it to us directly.

By the way, our Bibles are fully available online. We couldn't do that if there were a non-Church copyright holder.

BTW, I'm not interested in an email discussion. Too much of an investment of time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JJboy, posted 08-31-2002 1:24 AM JJboy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by JJboy, posted 09-01-2002 2:44 AM gene90 has not yet responded

  
JJboy
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 106 (16361)
09-01-2002 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by gene90
08-31-2002 4:55 PM


Are you seriously a Mormon, er... LDS? Or are you mocking me? If you are a Mormon, what about the first chapter in your er, bible? Somehow, i think my leg is being pulled....

------------------
Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
------------------------
I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice.

-Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by gene90, posted 08-31-2002 4:55 PM gene90 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 29 by Joe Meert, posted 09-05-2002 7:05 AM JJboy has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 106 (16370)
09-01-2002 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by JJboy
09-01-2002 2:44 AM


quote:
Originally posted by JJboy:
Are you seriously a Mormon, er... LDS? Or are you mocking me? If you are a Mormon, what about the first chapter in your er, bible? Somehow, i think my leg is being pulled....


Yeah, gene90 is LDS. Are you, er, mocking him?

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by JJboy, posted 09-01-2002 2:44 AM JJboy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 10 by nator, posted 09-02-2002 12:00 PM John has not yet responded

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 1988 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 7 of 106 (16375)
09-01-2002 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by John
09-01-2002 8:26 AM


[QUOTE]JJboy: [B]If you are a Mormon, what about the first chapter in your er, bible?[/QUOTE]

[/B]

It's the KJV. Notice I was talking our edition of the Bible. If I were talking about the Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, or the Pearl of Great Price, I would have explicitly said so.

Chapter 1 of Genesis in our Bibles can be found here: http://scriptures.lds.org/gen/1

It is worded exactly the same as a standard KJV and there are no corrected passages until immediately after the Flood. These corrected passages are found in an appendix in the back of the Bible, and are posted online. So in our Bibles we have both the original wording and the Joseph Smith translation

As for this age of the Earth thing, we don't know what the timescale is to God and we don't know if the "days" were equally long in length. I could go a long way into LDS doctrine but I don't think you would be terribly interested in that, I just don't think you should get too wound up about our Bibles and Genesis.

[This message has been edited by gene90, 09-01-2002]


This message is a reply to:
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Philip
Member (Idle past 2887 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 8 of 106 (16396)
09-02-2002 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by JJboy
08-31-2002 1:24 AM


Although a KJV-YEC I am; I've grown more tolerant of other versions, i.e., primarily as commentaries of the Bible. Now to each his own, don't get me wrong; but, the ASV and especially the NIV (in my less-than-meager opinion) seem like they've been translated by uninspired adulterers and/or adulteresses. Albeit, they read like a newspaper.

Reasons I cleave to the KJV:
It's extremely coherent and powerful English.
It speaks to my soul like an oracle. (Can't explain that well to Evo's)
It sings with pureness and high-level orchestration, especially in poetic and prophetic books.
It seems less biases with Weslyan and/or Calvinistic perversions of the Gospel


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JJboy, posted 08-31-2002 1:24 AM JJboy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by nos482, posted 09-02-2002 8:03 AM Philip has responded
 Message 12 by JJboy, posted 09-03-2002 6:54 PM Philip has not yet responded

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 106 (16402)
09-02-2002 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Philip
09-02-2002 4:17 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Although a KJV-YEC I am; I've grown more tolerant of other versions, i.e., primarily as commentaries of the Bible. Now to each his own, don't get me wrong; but, the ASV and especially the NIV (in my less-than-meager opinion) seem like they've been translated by uninspired adulterers and/or adulteresses. Albeit, they read like a newspaper.

Reasons I cleave to the KJV:
It's extremely coherent and powerful English.
It speaks to my soul like an oracle. (Can't explain that well to Evo's)
It sings with pureness and high-level orchestration, especially in poetic and prophetic books.
It seems less biases with Weslyan and/or Calvinistic perversions of the Gospel


Please, many of the "translations" in it were politically motivated.

King James had gotten the playwright William Shakespeare to do much of the work in his "version" of the bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Philip, posted 09-02-2002 4:17 AM Philip has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Andya Primanda, posted 09-03-2002 9:41 PM nos482 has responded
 Message 16 by JJboy, posted 09-03-2002 11:30 PM nos482 has responded
 Message 28 by Philip, posted 09-05-2002 2:29 AM nos482 has responded
 Message 41 by Wordswordsman, posted 10-05-2002 9:10 PM nos482 has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 10 of 106 (16423)
09-02-2002 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by John
09-01-2002 8:26 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by JJboy:
Are you seriously a Mormon, er... LDS? Or are you mocking me? If you are a Mormon, what about the first chapter in your er, bible? Somehow, i think my leg is being pulled....


Yeah, gene90 is LDS. Are you, er, mocking him?


Wow, Gene, you are LDS? All the LDS people I have ever known are very anti-evolution and anti-Big Bang.

Are you religious at all?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by John, posted 09-01-2002 8:26 AM John has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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gene90
Member (Idle past 1988 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 11 of 106 (16432)
09-02-2002 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by nator
09-02-2002 12:00 PM


[QUOTE][B]Wow, Gene, you are LDS? All the LDS people I have ever known are very anti-evolution and anti-Big Bang.[/QUOTE]

[/B]

Conservative Protestants seem have a negative influence on other groups in the US. Catholics for example are supposed to not be against evolution but I have seen exceptions. The same is true for Latter-day Saints. Back in the 30s the First Presidency (the President of the Church we consider a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, which, BTW, are three different titles) issued a statement that basically the Church deals with the more important spiritual aspects of Creation and that Saints should make up their own minds about evolution. We have no official stance but today there seems to be a lot of anti-evolution sentiment in the highest echelons of the organization and also amongst everyday members. There is some pro-evolution sentiment at BYU. It seems the YECism is waxing amongst the Mormon population and things will probably get worse, and I blame that mostly on outside influences and partly on the fact that we're just such a devout and conservative people that we are vulnerable to that sort of thing. An interesting snapshot of the issue amongst the Saints can be found here: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/5812

I personally keep a low profile, and it doesn't help that I live in the South. However the bishop of the ward closest to my university just happens to be a research entomologist so maybe I should risk picking his brain.

Also maybe I should mention that my Planetary Geology textbooks runs heavy on "naturalistic" models of the origin of the Solar System and it was written by BYU faculty (though I do not attend BYU, I attend a land grant college in the South).

[QUOTE][B]Are you religious at all?[/QUOTE]

[/B]

Yesterday I missed the weekly sacrament services and the monthly fast because of a bug that's going around; and that'll probably drag down the rest of my week. I try to never miss services, especially on Fast and Testimony day, the first Sunday of the month. I'm a recent convert and I've been judged temple-worthy but I haven't made it up there yet. If it further indicates my activity level, I'm seriously considering a mission. So yeah, I take my religion very seriously and I'm very fond of my church, despite the differences in opinion on evolution.

[This message has been edited by gene90, 09-02-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by nator, posted 09-02-2002 12:00 PM nator has not yet responded

  
JJboy
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 106 (16510)
09-03-2002 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Philip
09-02-2002 4:17 AM


See, that is not an opinion I have any problem with. Saying we like the KJV because we like it better is very valid and I have no problem whatsoever with that. It's when people start telling me I am going to hell because I use the NASB that I hate. And one not need be inspired to translate.

------------------
Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
------------------------
I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice.

-Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Philip, posted 09-02-2002 4:17 AM Philip has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by nos482, posted 09-03-2002 7:40 PM JJboy has not yet responded

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 106 (16512)
09-03-2002 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by JJboy
09-03-2002 6:54 PM


quote:
Originally posted by JJboy:
And one not need be inspired to translate.


Apparently since they are all full of contradictions and errors thus proving that none of them are actually the inspired word of your god. The so-called "original" texts and manuscripts are irrelevant since they are not what is being taught from to hundreds of millions of Christians as the literal and inerrant word of their god.

[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-03-2002]


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by gene90, posted 09-03-2002 9:35 PM nos482 has responded

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 1988 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 14 of 106 (16515)
09-03-2002 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by nos482
09-03-2002 7:40 PM


[QUOTE][B]Apparently since they are all full of contradictions and errors thus proving that none of them are actually the inspired word of your god.[/QUOTE]

[/B]

How does that "prove" that none of them are inspired by God?

[QUOTE][B]The so-called "original" texts and manuscripts are irrelevant since they are not what is being taught from to hundreds of millions of Christians as the literal and inerrant word of their god.[/QUOTE]

[/B]

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly"

(LDS) Articles of Faith.

The moral of this story: don't shoehorn all of Christianity in with the fundamentalists. It's no better than when a YEC strawmans evolution.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by nos482, posted 09-03-2002 7:40 PM nos482 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by nos482, posted 09-04-2002 7:40 AM gene90 has responded

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 106 (16518)
09-03-2002 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by nos482
09-02-2002 8:03 AM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by nos482:
King James had gotten the playwright William Shakespeare to do much of the work in his "version" of the bible.[/B][/QUOTE]

What a shock. The Bible is the word of... Shakespeare? That means Shakespeare is God?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by nos482, posted 09-02-2002 8:03 AM nos482 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by nos482, posted 09-04-2002 7:45 AM Andya Primanda has not yet responded

  
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