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Author Topic:   "Only have ourselves to blame" NO!
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4540 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 106 of 112 (164248)
12-01-2004 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by contracycle
11-30-2004 11:27 AM


quote:
And predictably enough, the patriots retreat to simple denial. America's solipsism triumphs again - all disconfirming evidence challenging existing assumptions is rejected, despite no coherent counter-point being offered.
The capacity for repeating the same argument ad nauseum does not a logical victory make. You still haven't explained how the actions of part of a group result in blame for all, or offered any useful alternatives to voting. Nor have you explained the logical leap from isolated instances of war crimes to institutionalized moral failure. You have made some interesting points but insist on carrying them all to absurd extremes.
I find it pretty humorous that you dismiss me and Holmes as ignorant patriots when half of our countrymen would be horrified by our sentiments and dismiss us as un-American. That's the problem with trying to maintain a balanced and realistic viewpoint. Every jackass with the "not for me = against me" mentality thinks you're the enemy and tries to pigeonhole you at the far end of the continuum. Crossfire is a bitch.
edit: included quote and fixed grammar
This message has been edited by zephyr, 12-01-2004 01:19 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by contracycle, posted 11-30-2004 11:27 AM contracycle has not replied

  
zol
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 112 (164272)
12-01-2004 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu
11-19-2004 9:21 PM


Bush Sucks, YEAH!
Yep, can understand your anguish mate. I havent read the other replies to your post but can imagine that most are in commisseration. I'm an Aussie living in Canada & was surprised to say the least that he got in again. If you want my opinion I would say that his re-election will lead to more 911's & I am concerned as to how that will affect the rest of us mere mortals. I dont believe he won the first time against Gore but thats the way it goes I guess. It is a shame that such a strong & beautiful Nation has become hated by so much of the world. I have some very close American friends but I see as much as others in the world do: The "general" American arrogance that pervades your country as regards the rest of the world. I wish you guys luck for next time & best wishes for us all in the meantime.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-19-2004 9:21 PM The Dread Dormammu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by zephyr, posted 12-02-2004 4:36 AM zol has not replied
 Message 112 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-05-2004 12:14 PM zol has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4540 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 108 of 112 (164591)
12-02-2004 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by zol
12-01-2004 4:11 AM


Re: Bush Sucks, YEAH!
quote:
Yep, can understand your anguish mate. I havent read the other replies to your post but can imagine that most are in commisseration. I'm an Aussie living in Canada & was surprised to say the least that he got in again. If you want my opinion I would say that his re-election will lead to more 911's & I am concerned as to how that will affect the rest of us mere mortals. I dont believe he won the first time against Gore but thats the way it goes I guess. It is a shame that such a strong & beautiful Nation has become hated by so much of the world. I have some very close American friends but I see as much as others in the world do: The "general" American arrogance that pervades your country as regards the rest of the world. I wish you guys luck for next time & best wishes for us all in the meantime.
Misery loves company, my friend. I think you're dead-on about "more 911's" and that has become my number one irritation - that he won by convincing people, among other things, that his opponent was weak on terror, when it is his reckless, overly aggressive approach that guarantees terror will be with us for a long time. Clearly Bush has no interest in understanding his enemy beyond knowing the best way to end their lives, and fails to grasp the self-defeating nature of his strategy. It's hard to believe we are led by someone so ignorant of history and world cultures that he honestly believes killing Muslims in the heart of the Arab world can solve a problem whose primary cause is outrage at American arrogance. Oh well... better to have someone with "conviction" than a guy who admits he's wrong, right?
Incidentally, I've worked with some of your compatriots in Iraq - nice folks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by zol, posted 12-01-2004 4:11 AM zol has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Silent H, posted 12-02-2004 5:15 AM zephyr has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5809 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 109 of 112 (164596)
12-02-2004 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by zephyr
12-02-2004 4:36 AM


better to have someone with "conviction"
You know for all of his self-proclaimed conviction, how come we can't get him convicted?
This message has been edited by holmes, 12-02-2004 05:16 AM

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by zephyr, posted 12-02-2004 4:36 AM zephyr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by zephyr, posted 12-02-2004 5:51 AM Silent H has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4540 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 110 of 112 (164601)
12-02-2004 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Silent H
12-02-2004 5:15 AM


It may have something to do with his party's successful hijacking of the concept of morality. God, this place is twisted....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Silent H, posted 12-02-2004 5:15 AM Silent H has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 111 of 112 (165290)
12-05-2004 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by contracycle
11-29-2004 10:25 AM


contracycle writes:
The will of the people is to keep invading a new country every couple of years and bomb foreigners indiscriminately.
If this is in fact the will of the people, it is only because the power elite do not want the world to be run by majority rule, or we as a major country will get voted OUT of power and will end up as a nation of mostly lower middle class like the British. (I like to push your anti capitalist buttons, contra! Just to assert that the U.S. will never allow the minions and masses of the third world to raise up too mightily. Who wants to give up the ranch to a bunch of squatters?
=====================================================================
This topic is a free floating non sequitar anyway. Are we off topic?
====================================================================
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-05-2004 11:02 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by contracycle, posted 11-29-2004 10:25 AM contracycle has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3940
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 112 of 112 (165349)
12-05-2004 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by zol
12-01-2004 4:11 AM


Safer from terrorism?
quote:
If you want my opinion I would say that his re-election will lead to more 911's...
My instinct says that Bush is making the U.S. safer from foreign based terrorism. He is doing such a fine job of screwing up the county, that no inteligent (ie OBL) terrorist would want to interfere. Why do something that would swing world opinion back to more favorable towards the U.S.?
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by zol, posted 12-01-2004 4:11 AM zol has not replied

  
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