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Author Topic:   When is something a god?
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 32 (164606)
12-02-2004 6:17 AM


What are our criteria for deturmining whether or not something is a god, if we even beleve in gods?
Is it immmortality nessesary?
What about omnipotince?
If you are religious would you continue to worship a god that was merely the most powerful being in exsistance, as opposed to being all powerfull?
Do gods have to be incorporial to be counted as gods or can phyisical beings be gods. Can organisums or things become gods, if not how do gods come into exsistance?
What about omnibenevelance? Is it possible for God or gods to be evil and still be called gods?

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AdminNosy
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Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 32 (164629)
12-02-2004 10:17 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 3 of 32 (164630)
12-02-2004 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu
12-02-2004 6:17 AM


The greek gods could die, weren't necessarily the good guys, weren't ominpotent, weren't omnipresent and weren't omniscient. The same applies to the norse and roman gods.

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PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 4 of 32 (164645)
12-02-2004 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
12-02-2004 10:23 AM


Gods
Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, only the Christian, Jewish and Islamic gods are considered all powerful.
I can't think of any others. As Mr Jack said, Greek, Norse and Roman Gods certainly weren't. Neither were the Egyptians, Chinese, Babylonian, Native American or any others that I can think of.
PY

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 5 of 32 (164647)
12-02-2004 11:15 AM


The Third Law
To paraphrase A.C. Clark's third law:
Any sufficiently powerful being would be indistinguishable from a god.
Based on our current technological powers the people of 1st century palestine would surely consider us to be gods.

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 32 (164651)
12-02-2004 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
12-02-2004 11:15 AM


Re: The Third Law
Star Trek once brought up a very good topic for their show. They proposed that a group of advanced aliens came to Earth thousands of years ago and made themselves gods in the eyes of the people. At one point, Captain Kirk meets up with Apollo (sp?). Stargate tv series also uses this concept.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if we actually do find evidence that the various deities of the past and present are a result of Alien visitation in our distant past.

Hate world.
Revenge soon!

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 7 of 32 (164666)
12-02-2004 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu
12-02-2004 6:17 AM


Too many points to address, or maybe you just wanted quick answers?
In short, I think we create god(s) to explain that which we don't understand.
Anything descriptive about a god is up to the creator(s).
If you want to have the best then you create the best i.e. 3 O's and immortality...who can beat that?

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 8 of 32 (164669)
12-02-2004 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
12-02-2004 11:15 AM


Re: The Third Law
Or, more recently Cortez and Montezuma, and they were in the same era.

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The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 32 (164683)
12-02-2004 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
12-02-2004 10:23 AM


Monotheist gods tend to be all powerful
Yeah, it seems to me that polytheisum has Non-omnipotent gods where as monotheisum requires omnipotent gods.
Does anyone know of a monotheistic religion with a less than omnipotnent god?
Zoroastrianisum comes to mind, but is it realy polytheisum? Does Ahriman and Ormuzd's conflict make them competing gods? Or is this just the result of a less than ominpotent god in a monotheisitic religion?
In modern monotheisum God seems to be all powerful and merely allows less powerful gods (satan) to exsist as part of a higher plan.
This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 12-02-2004 03:48 PM

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Tusko
Member (Idle past 101 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 10 of 32 (164847)
12-03-2004 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taqless
12-02-2004 1:47 PM


I was thinking about this the other day. I wonder if there is something analogous between the tendency towards monopoly in business (which I know nothing about BTW, but think I heard somewhere once), and the tendency towards 3 O's monotheism in religion. When two competing belief systems come up against each other, you'd think that a single 3 O's god would be more impressive, wouldn't you? Same goes for eternal punisment in hell and reward in heaven. You don't get much more persuasive than an infinite stick. Or an infinite carrot.
Mmmm.
Maybe this is just a total tangent, so please ignore me if it is.

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 11 of 32 (164864)
12-03-2004 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by The Dread Dormammu
12-02-2004 3:46 PM


Re: Monotheist gods tend to be all powerful
Does anyone know of a monotheistic religion with a less than omnipotnent god?
This might be kind of sketchy, but how about when Akenhaten was Pharoah...or was that truly monotheisitc for the short amount of time? I just remember the very general idea.
Does Ahriman and Ormuzd's conflict make them competing gods?
What about Jehovah and Lucifer?...Is this not the conqueror writing history?

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 12 of 32 (164867)
12-03-2004 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tusko
12-03-2004 7:51 AM


When two competing belief systems come up against each other, you'd think that a single 3 O's god would be more impressive, wouldn't you?
But, many do even if, as has been argued, that means certain things that are unpalatable must be acknowledged....such as sin/evil.
You don't get much more persuasive than an infinite stick. Or an infinite carrot.
Maybe that's why christianity is popular because you only have to work really hard through one life to save yourself. The difference between watching a long boring movie versus a short cartoon (dramatization).

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 13 of 32 (164871)
12-03-2004 10:25 AM


Do gods have to be incorporial to be counted as gods or can phyisical beings be gods.
Well, I think human psychology dictates that at some point the physicality of a god is essential. Whether it is an appearance to someone you trust, an appearance to yourself, OR an idol (for christian's an effigy).
To address the other scenario I would say that's what Pharoahs, for one, were supposed to be.

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 32 (166722)
12-09-2004 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
12-02-2004 11:15 AM


Re: The Third Law
NosyNed says:
Any sufficiently powerful being would be indistinguishable from a god.
Yeah but HOW sufficeantly powerful? When do we make the leap from Boss, to say overlord, to god?
I mean lets say we base it on ability to hear prayers. Well my Boss can hear and answer prayers (requests for a raise etc.) provided that I ask over the phone or in her office. If an alien overlord implants a chip in my brain so that he can monitor my thought is that god like?
Perhaps there is no real clear line between gods and non-gods. Some super-powerful beings might wish that they be refered to as Gods while others are satisfied being called supreme overlord.

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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 15 of 32 (166743)
12-09-2004 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by The Dread Dormammu
12-09-2004 8:59 PM


Re: The Third Law
Yeah but HOW sufficeantly powerful?
That was never defined, as it's relative to, well, lots of stuff.

Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent "The Lying Dumbass" Hovind's website
Lying Dumbass

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